Participants:
Steve Wershing
Julie Littlechild
Dan Cuprill
Steve Wershing: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Dan Cuprill: Dan Cuprill: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild: Steve Wershing: Dan Cuprill: Julie Littlechild:
Welcome to Becoming Referrable, the podcast that shows you how to become the kind of advisor people can’t stop talking about. I’m Steve Wershing. In this episode we talk with Dan Cuprill. Dan is an active advisor in Cincinnati with a successful practice and also coaches advisors on building profitable practices that attract clients. He’s also the host of the Profitable Advisor podcast. Dan is a wealth of information on marketing strategies that work.
Maybe the most significant concept we discuss in this episode is that rather than trying to stimulate direct referrals he focuses on enlisting clients and building his mailing lists, both electronic and physical. It’s much easier for clients who don’t have to worry about whether a potential referral might qualify for your services or whether they really feel a need for a financial advisor and provides an easier, more comfortable way for connecting friends and colleagues to you. Then you are in control of the messaging and the timing. We also discuss how Dan leverages his shock and awe kit both to impress prospective clients and provide an attractive way for clients to spread the word about you. There are a lot of really good, actionable suggestions for marketing in this episode so we hope you will enjoy our conversation with Dan Cuprill. Dan Cuprill, welcome to the Becoming Referrable podcast. It’s so great to have you here.
Thank you, you two. It’s a real pleasure.
So, one of the things that distinguishes your work is that you are not only a coach to advisors but you are an advisor yourself. And so, we want to talk all about referrals and your thoughts about them. How do you approach referrals in your own practice?
Yeah, I have a different approach to it then I think most advisors do because I have a very specific mindset for a client that before I will take them on the client has to fit a certain profile and it’s mostly a psychological profile. And it’s really not something that I could go to say one of my existing clients and say to them for example, “What people do you know who have anxiety about their money?” Right?
Right.
That’s an uncomfortable conversation.
They may know the people but they don’t know really what keeps them up at night. And I have a very strong opinion that not everybody should use a financial advisor. I think it’s those people who have trouble alleviating the anxiety in their life as it relates to financial matters, those are the people who need a financial advisor. Now truthfully, probably most people have that anxiety but there are some who don’t or at least they won’t acknowledge that they do and those are not the type of people that I want to work with. I want to work with people who will admit that they worry about things and they want somebody like a doctor to help them alleviate it.
Because the truth of matter is everything that we do as advisors it’s available to the clients to do on their own. We know it, we don’t want to admit it but it’s true and it’s more and more the case every year. So you don’t fight that in my opinion. What you do is you look for people who really do want to work with somebody to help them through it. So, I can’t really present that profile in a way that I think most of my clients could immediately identify people in their life who need that but what I can do is I can make my information available, the things that we do, the problems that we solve available to anybody. And so, my approach to referrals is I use my clients as a way to build my list. I want to have as many people as possible to reach out to me, to request information, a copy of my books, things that we’ve whether it be videos or a course that we’ve created, that sounds interesting to them.
I want them to make that initial contact and then once they do that then I will start nurturing those people. But what I won’t do is the traditional life insurance approach where they give you five names and you call them and you say, “Hey, I’m working with Jimmy and we’ve helped him a great deal and I think we can help you.” No that’s just not my way. I’m not comfortable doing it that way and frankly I just think it’s a bad way in this day and age. Because we are no longer needed as the distributor of our products. There was a time we had a monopoly on that. We don’t have that anymore so we have to come at it from a different perspective. So, the way I do referrals is I systematically use my clients to build my list by providing them with things that are not only interesting to share but are easy for them to share.
Well, and that’s really interesting because that’s a very different approach to things. And so, a lot of us in the field who talk about referrals talk about getting referrals or extending that to getting introductions and making that personal connection that way and approaching it as just help me get people on the list, not that you would say it that way but just help encourage people to ask for educational things from me. That’s a really interesting, different approach.
Well, you’re going to get a lot more response to it that way. Because let’s face it, there are people that are just not going to be comfortable referring people to and you don’t want to impair your relationship with your existing clients in any way. You don’t want them to feel like, “Oh gosh, here he goes again. He’s going to be asking me to introduce my friends.” But if instead let’s say so for example one of the things that I do is I have a book called Diffuse: Seven Ways to Protect Your 401K From the Ticking Tax Time-Bomb. And so what it does is it explains the fact that 401K is taxable, that taxes could very well rise in the future to address a variety of needs that the country has and there are strategies that you can employ to minimize that or eliminate that tax entirely. All right. So that’s addressing a problem that somebody might have.
So what we do is we encourage our clients to share that book with their friends but the way we encourage them to do it is a way whereby they send the information to their friends, their friends opt in, and then we get their friends information. And we make it very clear what we are, who we are, and it’s very easy for them to opt out should they want to do it. So I would rather have that approach because let’s face it if they have issues they’re going to call us. And if they don’t have issues well they may not have issues today but they may have them in the future. And if I can continue to provide them with good what I call infotainment, which is information that’s presented in an entertaining way, I dramatically increase the likelihood of staying in their consciousness so that when the time is right they know to reach out to me.
Well, it’s interesting too because in a way that’s how we all market our businesses when we’re supplying the industry but we don’t often recommend advisors do it that way. And part of what I like about that approach so much is it allows you to control the narrative in a very different way. We know that clients have a hard time articulating value in a way that’s meaningful and it’s not their job to do that either. I mean, it’s great when it happens but this really just says, “Look, let me do that for you. I can manage it.” If we’re not right for them they’ll be off the list but otherwise now I can talk about value in the way [crosstalk 00:07:50]
That’s a really great point. I mean, our clients don’t work for us we work for them, so why put them in that position? Instead, give them things that they’re actually going to help their friends by delivering. So if you prepare information that they know is going to be helpful to their friends they’re going to want to give it to them. But it’s not going to be something where they’re going to have to feel like they have to impose. Every once in a while, God love them, you get a client who’s just very referral oriented and he’s very passionate or she’s very passionate about sharing your story but they’re rare people and it’s part of their personality as to who they are. The rest of them tend to be very private people when it comes to this matter and they don’t feel the need they want to impose therefore they don’t.
But to say, “Hey guys, my advisor wrote this book that was very interesting. It explained things I was not aware of. He’s agreed to make a copy available to anybody who wants it. All you’ve got to do is click this link and he’ll send it to you and he won’t annoy you to follow. In fact, he won’t even ask your phone number.” Things like that are going to allow people to be a lot more comfortable about working with you and you’re going to get a much better response and you’re going to get people to opt in.
Yeah. Now just a real quick question because there’s another thing I wanted to ask you but so if an advisor wants to pursue a strategy like this what would you say is a minimum effective list size that an advisor should target building to?
Once you get to about a thousand people you start to see the benefits. Now having said that, I was just talking to a guy that I work with a couple of days ago and his list has just started to grow, he’s got less than 100, and he’s got an appointment with one of the people who had ordered his kit, his book. We help clients create what I like to call shock and awe kit and in there there’s a book and a few other things. And I told him I said, “That’s great that you’ve gotten one this quickly,” because he’s only started about a month ago, “But just understand usually that doesn’t happen so I don’t want you to expect that you’re going to get one next week. But once you get to about a thousand things just seem to happen.”
I’ve never studied the science of that number, I’m just from my own experience. Now you have to do other things like it’s not enough just to send them the stuff you have to effectively nurture them so that they continue to get things of value from you. It could be a daily email, an invitation to a webinar. When we get back to normal times invitation to a seminar, invite them to your clients event where you seat them with the friends who referred them. Things like that will dramatically improve your ultimate conversion results.
You just can’t send them the book or the kit and hope they call you. It just doesn’t work that way. In many cases they haven’t even opened it yet. They won’t throw it away if it’s prepared properly but they may not act on it right away. But eventually if you create more and more opportunities for them to connect with you your likelihood is you’re going to get a reasonably high number. We usually get about 10% of the people who have ordered our kit to engage us in some fashion meaning they’ve requested an appointment, they have come to an event, those types of things.
Yeah that’s pretty high, 10% is pretty high so that’s great.
It is but that’s because we systematically, we have a philosophy that says that we will put more emphasis on our existing clients than we will new ones. And I feel that this process where we are providing valuable information that clients can share with their friends elevates the client experience with us and I think that helps.
I can’t let you say the word shock and awe kit without diving a little deeper into that one so can you talk about what it is?
Right. Right. So like most things that I do I got the idea from somebody else and that term is one of Dan Kennedy’s where you create a tangible lead magnet. In our case it’s a well-designed box that includes two books, an audio CD, about a six page sales letter that has call to action and has a sense of urgency about it and a couple of other promotional things about our practice and how we are different. But most of it is lesson oriented, it’s here are things that people aren’t doing. So we market that kit and we do it a number of ways. We do it through our clients but we also do it through social media. So there’s a lot of people I think waste money on social media ads trying to go from click to marriage. What we do is we use social media specifically for people to order the kit and then we nurture them from there.
Now, the reason I feel tangible is important is because you not only want to know their names and their email address, you really want where they live, because then you can market to them two ways. You can do it digitally and you can do it through direct mail. Too many advisers are overlooking the effectiveness of direct mail largely because let’s face it email is cheaper, downloads are cheaper, they’d rather go that route. But the problem is that usually the email address that you get is what I’d like to call the junk email address. We all have one. For me it’s my Google, dancuprill@gmail.com. If you send anything there you’re going to go there with thousands of retailers who send me stuff every single day. I don’t really look at it. And that’s usually the address that people use when they opt in for just say a download or something like that. If you require the physical address sure you’re going to get fewer opt-ins but you’re going to get better opt-ins and you’re going to have the ability to market to those people both through direct mail as well as digitally.
Hi, it’s Julie here and I hope you don’t mind me interrupting just for a moment. At Absolute Engagement our focus is on helping you to use input from your clients to evolve your experience, uncover unmet needs and increase referrals. I wanted to let you know about a new resource that’s built on the idea that we don’t know what we don’t know, that is it’s a helpful self-assessment for you and your team to determine if there are any gaps in your understanding of client needs. Just go to evolveyourclientexperience.com and you can download it directly from there. I’ll also make sure we add that to the show notes.
So we talked about leveraging your client relationships to build the list and using the shock and awe kits to leverage that as well. What are some of the other ways that advisors can build that list?
Well again organically as I said if you market that. So let’s say for example you had, I’m always encouraging advisors to have a narrow target market and one of the easiest ways to have a narrow target market is to look at your existing clients and see if you have some commonalities in terms of occupation. So I’ll use Cincinnati for example, where I live, naturally we have quite a few people who either have worked for Proctor and Gamble or are working for Proctor and Gamble. Okay, fine. You could very easily position yourself to be the advisor for Proctor and Gamble employees. You study their retirement plan, all their benefits, you create a kit, a book specifically to that, and then it becomes very easy for people who work for that employee to seek out that material. They’re very easily targeted. Again, if you’re going to use social media properly that would be a great way to do it.
You can run ads that only appear with people who’ve listed that particular employer as theirs but it’s also very easy for your clients to share as well. So I spend about a thousand dollars a month just promoting like kit specifically to people that work for a private industry who are likely to have a 401k plan. You can also do it other ways. Speaking is a very effective way. I mean, I do it more so B2B whenever I’m asked to speak I’m always offering the kit as something people can order if they want to know more information.
Like for example if I’m asked to speak back when we could do this say in front of a chamber of commerce or something like that I would say after I’m done with my presentation, “If you’d like more information here’s what you do. Pull out your phones right now. I’m the only speaker you’re ever going to have who’s going to let you text and I want you to text the word,” and I’m going to make this up as a hypothetical because I don’t want people opting in online but, “Text the word retirement to 555888.” Okay so they do that. They text and then instantly what comes up is a link, response back, click on that.
And I talk them through it and now they have an opt-in page. And then I show them the slide that has the opt-in page and I said, “Okay, if you fill this out I’m going to send you the following items.” So it instantly allows me to get their information right away from those who are interested. I don’t have to ask them to fill out a form or anything like that, they can do it right then and there. So I’m taking advantage of the fact that they’ve just gotten done with my message and now they’re excited. And then in three, four days, depending on what kind of meeting it is that could be waiting for them before they even get home.
If you have a radio show in my opinion you’re going to be a lot more effective if you talk mostly about say your book or your shock and awe kit then if you just use the radio show as a way to get them to make appointments. Because when you say, “Call our office for an appointment,” you’re talking to a very small percentage of people who are going to do that. But when you say, “If you’d like a free copy of my book or my shock and awe kit.” We have specific names, mine’s called for example the Tax-Free Retirement Toolkit. So, I say, “If you want a copy of my Tax-Free Retirement Toolkit.” And then again I give them say a short code, they can opt in right then and there.
So there’s a lot of ways that you can go about doing it, I just think that too often we ask for marriage before we start courting our prospects and it’s the same thing when it comes to referrals. Don’t look for an arranged marriage situation. Simply ask your clients to carry your book, carry copies of your shock and awe kit and tell them, “Look, if you ever see somebody who you think could benefit from this give it to them.” Now, one of the things I like to do is I like to reward my clients who will give out the kit so when they do that, when they give out the kit, and I say to them, “Now, if you give out the kit and you have the permission of the person to whom you gave it to let me know their contact information then at the end of the year I will invite you to a special event,” I usually do wine tastings, “And I’m going to be inviting you and the people that you referred.” So that’s my way of saying, “Thank you.”
You don’t have to come to the event but that’s there. But you have to get their permission to tell me that you gave them. I assure you I’m not going to bug them. I’m basically just going to put them on our list so they’ll get our daily email. And whenever I send the daily email I always say, “If you find this email annoying opt out and we’ll never send you another one again.” So a number of ways that you can do it, we try to employ all those ways. But I always think that if your mindset is about list building you’re going to find a much bigger response from your clients and you’re going to get referrals and sometimes you’re not even going to realize they were referrals. Why? Well, because the person was on your list and maybe two years later they hired you and unless you check you may have forgotten that that was actually a referral from somebody else.
So a quick tech question Dan, you mentioned using the short code. We use Lead Pages for that particular thing. What technology do you use?
Yeah. I’m the absolute worst person to ask that question because I have a guy that I like to refer to as the digital Swiss army knife, his name is Steve Sharp. But we used to use, I can’t remember but I think right now we are using Lead Pages presently.
We’ll just include maybe the link because it’s just getting to know some of these technologies it’s interesting what you can do.
The challenge is, and there’s many companies that provide them, the most affordable ones are the ones where everybody, all their members are using the same number you just have to come up with the word. Well, the good words are largely taken. So, if you did say text retirement to 555888 I assure you, in fact I know for a fact, retirement is taken. So you have to come up with something else. Now you could come up with retirement and a number but there are a variety of them that are out there that you can work with.
Another thing that you can do and again this is something I learned from the real estate agency and I can get you a link later is when someone orders the kit you want to acknowledge them immediately. And we used to only do that with email, now what we’ve been able to do is automate both texting and voicemail messaging. So, now when they order the kit they’ll get a voicemail that will thank them for ordering the kit. And the phone doesn’t even ring by the way.
I was just going to ask you that. So, can you put it directly in their voicemail.
Yeah it’s amazing. It literally goes right in. And then they get texts because people are more apt to respond to texts. So the text basically thanks them for the kit and then periodically checks in to see if they would like any other information. And the response rate when you do that is 50%, it’s amazing. Yeah. That doesn’t necessarily mean 50% want to hire you but they’re responding back to you, they’re acknowledging you, that type of thing.
So there’s a program that is specific for realtors called Agents Legends and we’ve been using that but we’re about to switch to a new one now that actually allows us a lot more customization. I want to say, but I could be wrong, I want to say it’s part of the products that Fix My Funnel offers but again the digital Swiss army knife Steve Sharp takes care of all that. I just come up with the concept or he comes up with the concept and we put it in place.
But the other thing too that is very effective is if someone orders the kit just have someone on your staff make one phone call, that’s it just one, around day 10 that said, “Hey, I just want to make sure you got the kit and did you have any questions? Would you like to schedule a 15 minute call with Dan?” That’s it. And because we’re going to be nurturing them, we’re not going away. Again, in my world they get a daily email. So I know that but I want to give them that one opportunity to speak to an actual human. And usually we just get voicemail anyway and we know that so we don’t agonize over it. We just let them know that, “Yep. I just want you to know we’re here and if you want to learn more just feel free to reach out otherwise have a great day.”
You mentioned an appreciation event earlier and that you’re invited to speak also in the event but are you doing other events with your clients that you’re leveraging right now?
So, there’s a few of them. One is a new client event where if you’re a new client in the last year we basically just invite you to dinner and we bring all the new clients together and we bring in a couple of existing clients to sit with them, the ones that we know like us and will say nice things about us. We don’t do any selling. All we do is welcome them and tell them what a privilege it is to work with them. And because we have two advisors in our office, it’s me and my partner, usually this is one of the rare opportunities I have to really get to know her clients so it’s helpful in that respect.
The second thing that we do every year, in normal times, is we have an entertaining event. I like theater so we try to have a theater event every year if we can. We have done other things like wine tastings. We did a murder mystery one year which was actually fabulous where the clients are actually characters in the murder mystery that you bring a company in and that’s a lot of fun. Cincinnati has a wonderful Shakespeare theater that does every other month it’s a Shakespeare play and in the off months it’s something more popular. So I am a Shakespeare nerd but I know most people are not so what we’ll do is if they’re doing, whatever the play might be, it might be a Sherlock Holmes play, whatever, we’ll have an event where we’ll buy a huge block of tickets for that and we’ll have a reception at the event and then they’ll go to the play.
So it’s little things like that, that we do to interact. We have had a couple of different events in Napa Valley and that was a blast as well. Those are bigger and I don’t necessarily expect most advisors to do that. But I always say, “You want to make working with you a world-class experience,” and things like that can work well. You don’t have to spend a ton of money, you just have to make it nice. Probably one of the most well-received things that we do every year, this year we did it a little differently, is we always provide our clients with their dessert for Thanksgiving. So we have an automated process, email goes out several times telling them that we’d like to have a pie for them for Thanksgiving. Simply indicate which pie you want and then come to the office the Tuesday before Thanksgiving and we will start the celebration of Thanksgiving for you.
So they come, we have music going and throughout the day they can come and we thank them personally for being clients. Now this year, obviously the year of COVID, we did something a little different. We gave them two different treats and then the opportunity to make a donation. So they could either have cookies, they could have popcorn, or they could donate, well we’ll on their behalf to my favorite charity which is the Independence Fund which creates high performance wheelchairs for injured veterans. And so, this year they had the option to do all three. And while I thought everybody would do the Independence Fund amazingly not a lot, most did by far we actually bought more cookies and popcorn than I thought we would. I’m sure they give in their own ways too. But the Independence Fund is such a cool organization so it’s neat to be a part of that.
Now, one of the things I want to make sure we get to because you speak a lot about it and you spoke a lot about it when we spoke the other day is the importance of having systems around everything. Because we talked a little bit about your approach to referrals and you talked about a system and you were talking about it also as an extension of the systems you use to serve clients. So can you talk a little bit about the role of systems in your business and specifically about how you can leverage those systems to build and attract referrals?
Sure. Well real quick, I mean like a lot of people I read the book The E-Myth a long time ago and that was all about how if you want to be a real entrepreneur your business has to run independently of you. You cannot be the center of the business, you need to work on your business not in your business. And that’s something that is a worthy aspiration and that’s the definition of entrepreneur per the book and I’ve always relied upon that. So my office runs with nine distinct systems and I teach seven of them to advisors. When it comes to referrals the system that we have is well one giving out referral kits, i.e. the shock and awe kit, to our clients giving them the opportunity to share it with others. But we also do a lot of courses both online and face-to-face that we encourage our clients to either bring their friends to attend or to share them online.
So for example, if I do a particular course on tax law changes boring as it may be but whenever there’s a tax law change people are always concerned how does this affect them. We make it very easy for them to share it meaning that when the announcement comes out and they watch the course they get numerous opportunities to click a button, put their friends information in, and we share the course with them. And then the friend gets an email that says, “Jim and Mary Jones thought you might like this course that we recently did on tax law changes and if you’d like to watch simply click here. We will continue to send you information on this unless you request that we not and feel free to do that just respond like do not send it to me or hit the unsubscribe button.”
So systematically we’re always looking, whatever we do for clients we’re trying to give them the opportunity to share it with their friends and the courses have been an effective way to do that. In fact, here now because we can’t get together with them face-to-face it’s been particularly well received. We then implemented a new thing called coffee with Cuprill where once a week they get about a five minute video with me and I’ve got a cup of coffee although I had to admit one time I didn’t have any coffee in the cup it was just a prop. I’m sharing with them an important message and it’s very easy for them to share with others.
It’s amazing how intentional what you do is and I think that must be part of the message here, there’s what you’re doing and it’s very respected.
So, the two biggest systems companies in the world in my opinion and the ones who do it right are Disney and McDonald’s. And years ago I remember I met a guy who worked in finance for McDonald’s and it fascinated me because I was asking all kinds of questions about ketchup. I’d say, “Why do you guys have the ketchup behind the counter when everybody has it in front of the counter.” And you use the word intentional, that’s exactly right. There’s absolutely nothing done at McDonald’s or Disney that isn’t thought out. And if you do that, you will find yourself not only having better results, you’re also going to find your overhead is going to go down dramatically because you’re not going to waste money.
We don’t intentionally waste money, we do it unintentionally. So if we have a very specific system which again one of the systems is a profit system in a good practice you’re going to think that through and you’re always going to have that end goal in mind. You’re never going to just wing it. And I think too often as advisors when it comes to referrals we wing it. We don’t have an intentional system that’s designed to develop leads in a way that our clients would like to participate in.
Right. Right. And you’ve been talking about referrals but what do you think the other most important systems are?
Well for an established practice without a doubt the first two systems, the first one is called metrics and the second one is called profitability. Those are the two that have the greatest value because that’s where I dive in with the advisor and we look at where their money is going. Where are they getting their money from but really where is their money going and how are they effectively using their money. So much waste exists in financial advisory firms largely because in my opinion we take our advice from product vendors. We don’t take our advice from people who know how to run a business like a business, we take our advice from the very companies who provide product for us.
And the thing I would often point out is that what’s in the vendor’s best interest is not always what’s in the best interest of the advisor. We need our vendors but they have their own self interest and sometimes it runs contrary to ours. And what we need to understand is that as business owners we should have a profitability goal, we should have a wealth goal. I mean to me, I think it’s only logical that you should aspire to someday become your largest client and too often they don’t spend enough money looking at their numbers, looking at their profitability, looking at their waste. Those two systems when we put those in place they just open the eyes for the average advisor and it’s really cool because usually we more than pay for our fee right there by just doing those first two things.
Interesting. Well, I would love to continue this, I’d love to keep going there. There are so many good ideas in here and I know you have so many more to share but we should wrap up. Dan you have the Profitable Advisor podcast and you also coach advisors. If advisors want to learn more about how to do the kinds of things you’re talking about where should they go and look for you?
Right. So, in addition to the podcast which you can get that on any of the platforms, just go to my website, dancuprill.com, that’s C-U-P-R-I-L-L, dancuprill.com. And if you opt in, you will receive my daily email. You will also receive a complimentary copy of my print newsletter the Profitable Advisor letter. So if you’re into things like systems, profitability, if you want to get insights from a financial advisor who knows what you’re going through, that’s really what it’s designed to do. And the podcast will give you a lot of insights from not only within the industry but we have a lot of guests from outside the industry because I’ve always felt the best ideas always come from outside our industry.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joining us and for sharing all these great ideas with us.
Well, thank you so much for having me. All the best to you too.
Hi it’s Julie again. It was great to have you with us on Becoming Referrable. If you like what you’ve been hearing please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes, it really does help. You can get all the links, show notes and other tidbits from these episodes at becomingreferrable.com. You can also get our free report, Three Referral Myths That Limit Your Growth, and connect with our blogs and other resources. Thanks so much for joining us.