Participants:
Steve Wershing
Julie Littlechild
Andrea Schlapia
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Welcome to Becoming Referable, the podcast that helps you become the kind of advisor people can’t help talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild, and on this week’s show, Steve and I are joined by Andrea Schlapia. Now, Andrea is the founder and CEO of Ironstone, a firm that helps financial advisors maximize their focus on strategic planning, business development, and operations. She’s an educator, a speaker, a coach, and she’s a great interview.
In our conversation, Andrea breaks down, what she calls, the Fundamental 4. A blueprint that she created to guide advisors through the process of creating extraordinary businesses. And she digs in on the biggest challenges that she sees among advisors.
Andrea talks about the shifts that have been created by the pandemic, and the real impact of missing human connection. She shares great ideas on how to structure an effective team, and both attract and support next generation team members. And, of course, we’ll look at how all of this connects to referrals. And with that, let’s get straight to our conversation with Andrea.
Well, Andrea, welcome to the podcast. Happy to have you here.
Thank you, Julie. It is great to be here. And I know we’ve been in each other’s circles for many years, so it’s nice to finally have a conversation and collaboration.
I know. One of the great things about this podcast is just getting the chance to actually just talk in a dedicated way to people about what they’re doing, and yeah, this is a long time coming. So, I’m thrilled you’re here.
We’ve talked before this, and I’ve been reading a lot of your stuff, which is great, and we’re going to link to some of your materials in the show notes. But one of the things I noticed in the way that you articulate sort of is models, or frameworks for advisors. And I always find it really helpful because there’s so much we can do, but it’s hard to know where to start and what we need to do. And so, I know you referred to the Fundamental 4. Can you tell us a little bit about what that means?
Absolutely. So, the Fundamental 4 is inclusive of strategic planning, business development, operational effectiveness, and the human element.
Okay.
And we’ve created eight subcategories underneath each of those four fundamentals that we help a business owner/practice team really evaluate how they’re running the business. So, some things that are under strategic planning, of course, is compensation, is succession planning, is what business model you are in or where you want to go. Business development is everything of how are you growing the business? What’s the client experience, that referral network, which we’re talking about how to be referable.
Operational effectiveness is all the standard operating procedures and your client segmentation, your service metrics, your new client onboarding. Really, how are you running the practice? What are your SOPs? And then, the human element, of course, is all about the people on the bus. What is the role? What’s the responsibility? What’s the career path, communication, leadership, culture, all of those things. So, it’s a really nice framework to take a look at your business and to say, “What’s a out of whack? What’s not? What do we need to refine? What can we change, alter, and elevate?” But it gives you, in this nice little box to take a look, at all the different ways to slice and dice.
And that’s important because, I mean, there is so much, and I always feel, it gives you, whether it’s real or not, kind of a sense of control because, at least, you can see what you need to look at.
But I imagine as you’re working with advisors over the years that you found that some of those areas might be bigger challenges, in general, is that the case? I’d love to know what you see when you actually look at all of these businesses.
Absolutely. And I can say why people show up on our doorstep. As I rattled off strategic planning is the big picture. And then, in the weeds a little bit deeper with business development ops, really in the weeds. And then, human element under the root system.
But if I say, why do people show up for us? Human element is first. Because they’re always, “I just hired somebody, what should I pay them?” Well, maybe we should have decided that before you hired them. But the human element piece is such the Achilles heel for so many business owners of how to hire, when to hire, how much to pay somebody. What’s the structure that I even am trying to implement? That just ties us back to strategic planning, but it’s always the human element first, then operations of like, “Okay, what are the process and systems that I have in place, or don’t?” And strategic planning in that third tertiary spot only because established practices do have a plan in some way, shape, or form. It might be in a business owner’s head, but it’s not as though it’s like a true startup per se. And then, business development last because you are a growing practice. It may not be at the rate at which you want, but it’s not as though that you’re not bringing business in. So, if I reordered a human element, ops, strategic planning, and then business development.
It’s interesting because I always think advisors would be like, “I just want to grow.” And they come, and they’re trying to solve that problem, but that sounds like that’s not the case at all.
Well, that’s actually what they say when they call and that’s what they think.
Okay, right.
But then, when we start peeling this onion, and popping the hood of the practice, what the real challenges end up being is the people on the bus, right seats, clarity of role, responsibility, career path, coaching, all of those things float up to the top, and say, “Well, this is really the root of the problem. It’s not this over here.” So, it’s just a collaborative conversation with the advisor to help them to really uncover: what is the challenge? What are the challenges of the practice?
Can I get you to clarify something Andrea? Did you say that compensation strategy is in the strategy part of it, not the human resource part of it? The human element part of it?
You heard correctly, yes. You are very correct.
Tell us more about that.
And the reason why we put compensation and incentive plan underneath the strategic planning portion is because we really are working with independent advisors that have to make that decision. So, while it dotted lines to the human element without question, it’s still a business owner having to decide fiscally responsible, how do I pay? When do I pay? All of those elements, and helping them to wrap it into their bigger picture business plan, strategic plan for the firm, because it just ties into what is the infrastructure? What am I going to invest into my human capital? So, that’s why we put it underneath the strategic planning. Again, of course, it dotted lines and falls into the human element, but we have to look at it from a bigger picture perspective, and pull back and say, “What is the infrastructure for the firm?”
Sure. And you said that when advisor show up at your door, they think they want to talk about how to make the firm grow, but it turns out there are a lot of other things going on. When it comes to their team challenges, how do most advisors that you meet define what their biggest team challenges are?
Team challenges are, again, roles, responsibilities, who’s doing what? I might sit by for the last 20 years, I know your title, but do I really know what you actually do day in and day out? And so, that’s why the role, responsibility, and clarity around that is, such a, again, catalyst to determining how we’re going to grow internally, and the practice in and of itself versus how are we going to grow with our client base.
And one of the questions I always ask, if you had a hardcore push on business development right now, could your current team handle it? And almost always the answer is, “Ugh, no.” Or, “I don’t know.” Or, “I don’t think so.” Or, “We could pull it off, but it wouldn’t be a great experience.” We don’t want that for anybody. So, what do we need to have in place operationally and from the human element piece to ensure that the business development focus that we do have is a really great experience for the client, and for the prospects? And they become champions, which makes you more referable with that consistent service.
I think these things are always challenges, let’s face it, from the day you probably hire your first person. But when do firms start to really focus on this? Is there a point in the trajectory?
So, if we’re talking a solo advisor that has that client service person, relationship manager type but the minute you hired that third person, which now we’re talking a potential ensemble practice where it’s multiple advisors, three or more people is when it become comes the challenge because, Julie, if you and I are a team, I do everything you don’t, you do everything I don’t.
Yeah.
And then, we can just go to each other down the hall, or get on Zoom and go, “Okay, what do we need to do? Super easy. The minute you hire the third person, whether it being a client service person, or you’re bringing in a service advisor to help with the different level of clientele, so that you can be the primary for your top clients… It’s just that third person. When does that happen? It’s a different answer across the industry, but it’s the third person involved in the team creates a new dynamic because now I’m like, “Ooh, are you doing that? Or are you doing that?”
And then, just to sort of highlight something that you said, I thought it was really interesting, and worth emphasizing. You talked about straightening out the operational issues before you have a business development push. I meet advisors, I even work with a few advisors who say, “Well, what we want to do is bring in more clients. What we want to do is build the business.” And, and at the same time, they say, “Oh my gosh, I’m so busy, I’m not gonna be able to talk to you for three weeks.” Do you think one may have a relationship to the other? I mean, how do you get that point across to advisors when you see it?
Well, and that’s the huge pain point that we want to help them to uncover of, if you did bring in clients, what’s the experience? Are you going to maintain them as a client? Are you going to even be referable and get more clients based upon the experience that you are going to provide that new person right now, in this moment? And if the answer is no, and that’s when I feel like the light bulb goes on, or even the light bulb’s on, but the dimmer switch goes up a little bit in our collaboration of, “Okay, right, it’s not going to be the best that we can do. So, let’s focus on more of this internal fixing of the practice in and of itself before we do the push for bringing in more clients.”
Now, I’m not saying that anybody should completely stop doing business development. But if you are taking care of your existing client base, and doing that at a very high level that is going to make you more referable. So, that can consistently, and in tandem be happening while we’re focusing on the operational piece of it, and the human element piece of it to clean those things up to make you just run more efficiently at a higher level.
I mean, these challenges that you’re describing, they’ve been always challenges when you have teams, but have you seen anything shift either throughout the pandemic, or coming out of that that is different about team structure, or what advisors need to think about?
It’s the work from home.
Yeah.
So, Ironstone, we are going to be 13 years old in December of this year. And so, I will say, my team has been remote from day one, which awesome time to start a business December of 2008.
Good choice.
I mean, because when you’re laid off, you have no choice.
Yeah, fair enough.
So, practice management isn’t a cool thing when you work for a mutual fund firm. So, 2002 and 2008 from Dreyfus and DWS Investments, which is Deutsche Bank, I got laid off. But the beauty of the time that I spent in those mutual fund firms, and walked in every custodian imaginable, north, south, east, and west, it was the same problem every single place that I walked into.
That is truly how the Fundamental 4 came to be because we were looking at patterns and consistency, and what were the repetitions that I saw when I walked in, the same conversations? Again, that’s the Fundamental 4, that’s how that came to be. So, from that perspective, though, yes, my team has been remote since 2008. So back to your question, Julie, of what’s changed? It’s offering some type of hybrid remote opportunity. The world of work from 2021 and beyond is dramatically shifted of what an employee, or a team member expects now from an experience, and an employer.
So, if you are not offering some type of hybrid remote as a part of your compensation package, you will not be the employer of choice. I will strongly say the word guarantee in this moment, if you do not offer some type of… So, even if it was one day a week, or a couple of days a month that you get to work remote, if you’re not shifting to that, again, I can’t stress enough that you will not be the employer of choice.
Hey, it’s Steve. We’ll get back to the show in just a minute but first, I’d like to make you an offer. Every week I send out a tip, or an idea to help you become more referable. It might be something I picked up during an advisory board meeting. It might be an idea from one of our amazing guests. Every other week, I announce a new interview on the podcast, so never miss an episode. Or maybe it’s something I picked up from a new research report. And I deliver it right to your inbox. Would you like to become a little more referable each week? Then, send an email to steve@theclientdrivenpractice.com and I’ll even throw in my latest alert, 5 Reasons You Need to Listen to Your Clients Now Before Someone Else Does. Just put 5 Reasons in the subject line, that’s steve@theclientdrivenpractice.com and put 5 Reasons in the subject line. And I’ll send you your free guide right away. And then, a little tip about how to become more referable every week. Now, back to the show.
Do you think that we also have to think a little differently going forward in terms of how we set people up for success at home? Because it feels like the last year, it was just, well, you have to work at home. So, I hope you’ve got a desk or a dining room table, and wifi. And we’re good.
But now, I’m beginning to wonder if we have to start investing at, in that home setup, which is a whole different kettle of fish now because a cost with it, don’t know.
That’s exactly right. And, again, based upon my own career path of working at three different mutual fund firms, I’ve telecommuted actually since 1992. So, I totally dated myself in this moment of my age.
As a child when you started working.
That’s right.
But, I have always worked remote the majority of my career, I will say. So, last year, did not impact me mentally at all. It was like my normal, it was way normal for my team. But you are spot on Julie of, we have to help people and team members to be successful working remote. If you’ve never done that, then okay the desk, the kitchen table. I know that I have a green screen that I showed you before we started our call today.
I wish that was recorded. I’m just saying.
In New Hampshire. And so, I have wood paneling behind me. And it’s a green screen that you can get on Amazon that it’s on hydraulics, and you can pull that up.
So, do you need a desk? Do you need a dual screen? Do you need a quality video camera? Do you need a ring light, so that you’re not in the shadows? You want to make sure that you don’t have the messy bed behind you, so invest in the green screen so that you-
Seeing a lot of bedrooms over the last year.
I don’t want to see your bed.
I don’t, I don’t actually.
I just don’t want to see that. So, invest in the green screen. It’s, really in the big scheme of things, preparing now, if the world goes crazy again, and we have to go 100% remote, you will set your team up for success for that potential. Plus you are going to be the advisor of choice because you are offering remote opportunity.
So, from the aspect of what does that look like from an accountability standpoint, being very clear in the roles and responsibility, and actually what the output is, is now what’s more important than saying, “Okay, it’s hardcore 8 to 5, 9 to 5.” And yes, you are client facing as an advisory firm without question, so you may have to be on and available during those times, but higher communication, instant messaging, whether it be like via a Slack, or Microsoft Teams, or any of the technology that you can list out, a laundry list nowadays. But higher level communication, set yourself up for giving you that consistency of what does your workspace look like? That’s just more critical than ever now of going forward.
And, you also mentioned state of mind. You talked about since you’ve worked from home for a long time, it didn’t really affect your perspective on your work. But there’s been a lot of talk since the beginning of the pandemic about mental health and how the changes affect teams. What are you seeing, or hearing from advisors about how teams are responding that way? What kinds of challenges and pressures have they had, and how are they dealing with it?
Well, I think, we do a lot of personality assess and personal assessments from a communications stand point. If we said extroverts and introverts, we subscribe to Myers Briggs. That is where you get your energy source from, not as though I want to be party animal, or recluse, that’s not what it’s measuring. It’s where do you get your energy from? Extroverts, this has been an energy zap because there hasn’t been that human connection, and even because the time of this… Pandemic length of time, I should say, even regardless of extrovert or introvert, people want to get back together. It’s that human connection that people do want. Extroverts want more than introverts, but is still that critical coming back together. I have so many teams that say, “We’re tired of working remote. We want to be back in the office.” And I think that is absolutely critical.
And so, if it’s even an offsite that you’re not in your office where you can socially distance, if that’s the comfort level for everybody within your practice. I have several teams that said, “Let’s just do a ‘retreat.'” I’m doing my air quotes when I say that. So, that they can come back together if they’re not able to come back into their office, so that they’re renting the conference space at the hotels, so that they can have the strategy, and war room, and flip charts, and overheads, and all that kind of stuff, so that they can at least just get that human connection.
Because you’re spot on not everybody works remote well. I mean, again, it didn’t disrupt us, but we’ve been doing that for 13 years. And we’ve actually been doing video, which nobody liked until most recently. Our advisor team said “Yeah, we don’t need to see you. Let’s just do a phone call. Let’s just do a conference call.” Only last year, flipped everybody into the Zoom world that, “Let’s see each other now.”
I’m tired of putting my makeup on every day, by the way. Like I would much rather not.
I’ve just stopped caring.
So, let me try to get back to some of the tactics here. If you were meeting with a firm maybe for the first time, and you had identified that structuring, the team was a challenge. So, you’ve talked about rules and responsibilities. Can you kind of walk us through the questions they need to ask, or the steps that you would take to help them improve?
Absolutely. Well, what we don’t want to do is ever assume how practice actually functions. So, when we start working with folks, we want on the whole team involved, and we actually have them score the Fundamental 4 of what’s working, and what’s not working. And use that framework to be able to really take a look at every slice of the practice. So, again, with the eight subcategories underneath each four, there’s really 32 line items that we’re helping to audit a practice on. And allowing the whole entire team to be involved in that process, we’re looking for patterns and consistency.
So then, we can compile all of that information, and really do an analysis of the practice. So, not only do we have people score like, do you have job descriptions? How is the hiring process? Do you have client segmentation service metrics? You identified a niche market, do you have a branding and value proposition? What is your investment model? What is your business model? So, those are all the questions that are some of the pieces that are under the Fundamental 4 items. But the value, what we find that works really well is because we have the whole team involved in the process there’s more clarity and understanding of, again, what’s working, what’s not working. And then, it’s the catalyst of what are we going to shift and do differently going forward?
So then, we really break down a 12 month roadmap based upon the analysis that we do, and break it down even further into 90 day chunks to say, “Well, based upon what you have told us about your practice and the patterns that’s floated up to the top, based upon your input,” and I will say 99% of the time it is roles and responsibility. It is job descriptions. It is the human element first and operational effectiveness second, every single time pretty much when we have teams go through the analysis process.
And, again, the value of that is everybody’s involved. It’s not just the business owner, and you have one lens. You really have a 360 degree view between the whole entire team. And there’s more buy-in, there’s more clarity, there’s more standing of here’s, what’s not working. And here’s how we’re going to go forward to fix that. And break it down into smaller chunks, into the 90 day. “The next 90 days we’re working on roles and responsibilities, or client segmentation, or these SOPs, standard operating procedures.” It’s breathing room of not saying, “Let’s get it done in this next 30 days,” but it’s a 90 day theme, what I call our development day. Development day is when you’re closing the door, the voicemail is on, the autoresponder email is on, the doors are locked, and you are focusing internally with all of your team on this practice management stuff.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah. And so, let’s connect the dots here. You work on team issues and the operational issues. And so, how does that connect with the client engagement, and the growth that the advisor wants to achieve?
That is a perfect connection because based upon getting clarity of role, responsibility, who’s doing what, the operational piece of that, that provides a much better run practice, consist service for the clients. They’re going to be able to turn around and become a champion for you and your practice, because, “I know exactly what Julie and Steve do for us and their team does for us. And let me tell you, potential prospect that I could introduce you to them.”
So, the more efficiently run on the practice, and having clear of who is doing what that’s going to be a better experience for your client, which makes you more referable. It’s going to be that consistent service that you’re going to provide for that client. And they’re going to, again, turn around and become your champion to tell somebody else, “This is absolutely a fabulous experience that I’m getting. And here’s why,” because too often we talk through what we’re offering to the client, but nothing necessarily deliverable on a collateral paper, or it’s not necessarily a consistent message. The more you have that, the easier it is for me to tell you about that experience making you referable.
Do you see many advisors trying to… Or maybe larger firms trying to hire for the business development role as a separate role versus integrating?
Yes.
Like what’s the success of that because I hear very mixed reviews.
Well, and I would say it is a chasm of variety in that answer, because, again, if the expectations are not clear of what that is, and that just goes back to again role and responsibility, I know it probably sounds like I’m beating that dead horse on the human element piece, but that is always where the gap, or the misstep is. It’s the lack of clarity of what the expectation is.
So, from a business development perspective, I see more and more folks bringing in that business developer because I think from the generations that are in the industry now from boomers to anybody younger than an X and what the difference is in those generations. X-ers and older, I’m an X, we were beaten with sales training. I think anybody that’s younger than an X hasn’t necessarily experienced sales training, like the Xers and older have, and they’re just not accustomed to how to sell. And I know that sell is a bad word for some folks, but it’s really educating people about what you do.
And that’s where I want to help people shift their mindset around what is selling? Selling is educating about what you do. And if I can communicate what we do really well, and how we might be different, and explore with you or needs are that is selling, but it’s in an educational way. And then, selling isn’t a bad thing either.
Do you find any firms who have success with a business development officer, who’s comfortable with selling and comfortable talking to people, but who will not be the advisor? I’ve talked to a lot of advisors, who really struggle with that. And I’ve yet to see many good examples of having a role in a firm that brings in the clients, and then hands them to an advisor for the actual thing. Have you found any firms that have done that successfully?
I cannot point to anyone. So, I feel like I’m in the same mindset that you are, and so yes, can it be done? Sure. Is it done successfully? I have not seen a good example of that because people are looking for, if I’m out and connecting with you, and building the relationship, but now you pass me off to somebody else. Well, now I have to start all over again, as the client perspective, “I have to start all over again with this new person that you’ve just passed me to.” So, I think it’s still too, to be determined how that can work, and function. It’s a question mark in my mind.
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you mentioned demographics. I’d love to press into that a little. I mean, again, much of what you’ve talked about would apply irrespective of age, but what are some of the differences that you’re seeing when teams are really successfully recruiting, attracting, and supporting next gen?
It is, without question, what is beyond compensation? If we take the dollar figure off the table, this is now back to, when I said earlier, if you’re not offering some type of hybrid remote work opportunity. So, it’s the work from home, it is the benefit package. I was just at my first in-person conference a couple of weeks ago, which was wonderful, and amazing, and nerve wracking to be on a stage presenting versus the Zoom box that you have all your cheat sheets around you no longer.
But looking at it from the perspective of there was pet insurance, and there was, we’ll bring in a detailing of your car once a quarter, and the gym. And there was, did I say pet insurance? Like pet insurance and a nanny. And so, I think, there’s a vast range of what people are offering that are outside of what we’ve typically thought as the norm from a perk perspective. But it’s absolutely, from an educational aspect, people are looking for a coaching experience.
Again, gen X and older know OJT, which is on the job training. That’s what anybody younger than X is actually looking for. They want to coach, they don’t want a boss. They want an experience. They want an opportunity to really be focusing on their strengths and how they’re contributing to something bigger than themselves versus gen X and older like, “This is my job. This is my situation. This is my paycheck. I got my review at the end of the year. No news is good news.” That doesn’t work for anybody younger than gen X.
Yeah, it’s so different. And it’s almost in the DNA to say, “Well, they need all this validation.
But so, you touched on the job training and whatnot. I love the idea of sort of a coach versus a boss that seems to summarize a lot of what makes sense.
Any examples of how advisors have provided that kind of coaching mentoring. Because, I mean, it feels like, well, when am I going to fit that into my day?
You are not wrong in that statement. There are people that give me the stink eye, eye roll. Any time I bring this up they’re like, “Lady, I am not doing that.” Like, “Well then, good luck to you. The next group of people that will be on your team.”
And, I will say, this is why a COO type, and I use that title really lightly of like chief operating officer, whether it’s really that title or not, but it’s the operations manager, operations director, compliance that’s running the house person, whatever that title may be, has been really the number one hire for ensemble firms and beyond for the last couple of years. And expedited more even because of last year, which ties us right back to the coaching element.
I will always speak from a best practice perspective. The ideal from a more formal, like if I have a self-assessment and, Julie, you’re my boss, I’m doing a self-assessment on me. You’re doing an assessment. And we have a two-way communication and collaboration. And we set my goals and objectives together. The ideal, Stephen I don’t think you’re sitting down, Julie you are like I am… Not, once a quarter. That’s the ideal.
Now, if you are only doing performance reviews, and that’s where I changed the language, I said performance reviews and performance feedback. Two different experiences. Reviews are, “Hey, here’s your check. You did a great job. Thanks for being a team member. Good luck in 2022.” A performance feedback is a coaching experience that can tie to compensation, that can tie to incentive. Incentive is based upon performance. We use bonus too interchangeable with incentive. And, in our opinion and our philosophy is two different things. There’s base, there’s incentive, and there’s bonus, three different buckets of money that can tie to, again, a coaching experience.
The coaching experience becomes, again, performance feedback every 90 days. Again, if you’re only doing it once a year, do it at least twice a year, and do it really, really well versus trying to do it four times a year, and just not doing it well at all, and it’s not meaningful. So, it has to be meaningful. If you just say, “Great job,” that’s an accolade and nice, but what did that really help me to do to change behavior? Nothing. So, “In this client service experience, you did great because you reached out to client X, Y, Z, really took care of them in the relationship.” So, it’s very, very specific what something was that you did well, versus just a great job and a kudos.
Yeah, absolutely.
Look, there’s so much here. I mean, we’re touching on issues that I think we know are important, but just what we were talking about there, it’s hard, right?
Yes.
We’ve got to do it. It’s like eating your vegetables, or something. So…
Not everybody likes broccoli, but-
That’s true, but it will help.
In the long run.
So Andrea, where could listeners learn more about the work that you do?
You can visit us on our website, ironstonehq.com which will then, lead you to all of our social media. So, we’re on LinkedIn and, of course, Twitter, and Facebook, and a YouTube channel videos. But just visit our website. There’s an opportunity to do a self-assessment, if you’d like.
Everything in action is a big orange button. So, look for the big orange buttons ironstonehq.com and you can find us.
Perfect. That sounds great. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate it.
Thanks Andrea.
This has been a great collaboration. Thank you both.
Hey folks Steve, again, thanks for joining us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes. It really helps. You can get all the links, show notes, and other tidbits from these episodes at becomingreferable.com. You can also get our free report, 3 Referral Myths and How They Limit Your Growth, and connect with our blogs, and other resources. So, until next time, so long.