Participants:
Julie Littlechild
Steve Wershing
Gail Graham
RECORDING COMMENCES: Julie Littlechild: Prior to founding Graham Strategy, Gail was the CMO at United Capital, and prior to that, an EVP of marketing and business development for Fidelity. So she has been driving innovation for some time. What I really love about this conversation is that we get to tap into Gail’s strategic brain and the questions that we all need to be asking ourselves about the future. We talk about the things that make an advisor stand out in the crowd, and the importance of demonstrating value, but in a really tangible way. We talk about brand and the impact on referrals. I know I took a ton of notes during our call, and with that, let’s jump right in. Gail, welcome. Such a pleasure to have you on today. Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: I really do see, we’re going to see a thinning of the herd. If advisors, there are some advisors that frankly aren’t that good out there who are selling investments products and doing very standard and routine kinds of planning that are just not that valuable to people anymore. Number one is, have you thought hard about what people value and what they’re willing to pay for? Not lots of extra fuss, but truly willing to pay for? There’s all methods of research for that. You know, Julie, the conjoin and discreet choice and other ways that you force people to tell you what they’re willing to pay for, but that’s an important question. The second thing is to really look at where consumers are going, and ask yourself, are you prepared to meet the needs of new investors? I’m not just jumping to the millennials. We know that the boomers were very trusting clients. The Gen Xers are less trusting. They have higher demands for convenience and service and problem solving and other things, and I feel that advisors, if they have more than a five-year career ahead of them, need to spend much more time thinking, what am I doing that’s valuable? And where are the people that I’m serving headed? Where are they going? Where’s the market going for consumers? We have to be future focused, and those two things are what’s on my mind. Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: That’s not a strategy, and too often, that’s what I hear from people. A strategy would be something like, I focus on people who have complex financial lives, not a lot of time, and are in their earning years. Accumulating assets for their goals is really important. If that’s the market I’m going after, my offering has to be something very clear and specific against those needs. I’m going to offer a very clear step-by-step process that helps people feel more organized. I’m going to offer a very time-friendly way of doing business that uses video and chat and text and other ways to improve convenience in the way these people are being served. Then, when you look at those benefits to people, it’s that they can finally feel like dealing with their money isn’t so complicated. They can relax knowing that everything that they need to do is clear and organized. You come up with something specific. When I talk about strategies, you can see all of this is about focusing and putting on paper and documenting what your business aims to do. Then, afterwards, you have to look at, once you’ve documented the whole strategy and you’ve asked yourself, is it credible? Does it ring true? Can I prove it? In other words, if you’re saying that you offer convenient ways to do business, you can’t then be back in the dark ages, where you expect everybody to come to your office for face-to-face meetings. You have to challenge yourself. I have this one-pager that I use. It takes sometimes months to get everything onto this one single page that outlines the strategy of the organization, the target market, the offer, the tangible benefits, the proof points, a competitive analysis. All of it on one page. That’s to get that kind of mental clarity. Then, we do an audit of the business compared to the strategy, and where are gaps between what the business is set up to do or how they do business, and where the think the strategy is? Sounds kind of complicated, and I realize it sounds like you need a consulting firm, and you don’t necessarily need one, but I am going to try and publish some simple tools. You have to be willing, though, to roll up your sleeves and be self-critical in order to do good strategic work. That’s where I really challenge advisors to have the courage to do it. Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: You guys know I’m a big champion of financial life management, really incorporating your values and your feelings and your priorities and goals in a much more broad way than traditional planning. They were shocked walking away. What this woman said was, everybody else comes in here and assumes I care about investments, and of course, I do, but I’ve got a lot of other problems and no one to help me with those. I think that’s where you have to listen. We also, Stephen and I, in the most recent advisory board that he helped, and he did a fabulous job facilitating, I was really shocked, actually, that the more the client felt understood, the less they cared about price. Would you agree with that, Steven? Steve Wershing: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: The best way to get consistency is simplification, keeping it simple. Simple and clear and human. Those are my three things. Then, once you’ve done that, the real way, you can do marketing and I just saw something this week that was hilarious. It was this website of these two advisors, and I won’t say where they are in the country, because I don’t want them to—I don’t work with them. I just randomly hit upon this. They have this crazy, wild website where they’re obviously trying to be the coolest advisors in the history of the planet, and its cool factor is just, wow. You go nuts, but they’re based in this tiny town in one of the most conservative states in America. When I read their bios, there’s nothing in their bios that says they’re equipped to do anything nearly as interesting as their website. Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Ideally, you get there. I will tell you, I worked with one advisory firm that ended up, it was an amazing story of a big breakaway broker that ended up, these top-notch advisors trying to form their own firm, and ultimately, they sold the firm to Republic Bank, because they never could be a firm. They could never be more than these four guys with personalities and books of business. I think if you’re in a partnership, it takes some real negotiation and honesty between you and the other partners. It may be that you want to talk about your partnership as a partnership with a collection of individuals who bring distinct skills to the table. That’s one way to wrap around multiple advisors. Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: That throws people. You’re the top one, but you’re not? She says, I’m not an interior designer. I am a person who helps people layer their homes and their lives in a way that brings together the things that make them feel great about their home. It’s intrinsic that it’s the person and the home, and she just goes a great job. I think if you can describe your difference, and another “trick”, I think, that when your clients love you—I use the word trick with quotes around it, because I don’t like tricks. Help them refer by helping them describe what you do for their friends. We heard this at our client advisory board. A lot of clients were saying, I wish you had an easier way for me to tell people about you. The shorter and simpler that you make your statement to clients about, here’s what I do. I layer people’s lives and their homes together in a way that makes them so happy. I’m not an interior designer. Then, they’re going to go to a cocktail party and say to someone, I worked with this person. They can remember that. They can say it. I happen to know that, because I was referred to that designer, and I’ve referred her five people at this point, and I always say that, because she makes it super clear. I think having a brand, having it be differentiated, having it be truly authentic and then delivering on that experience creates an excitement that other people will want to share, because they are now relieved they’ve found you, and they want their friends to find you. It’s hard. I think this is the hardest thing. We all know clients want to refer, but they don’t, and it’s a dilemma. You two are the experts at that. I’m a marketing expert, but not a referral expert, but I can’t imagine that a great brand, a branded experience, that has to help get referrals. Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: Gail Graham: Julie Littlechild: Gail Graham: Steve Wershing: END OF RECORDING
Welcome to another episode of Becoming Referable, the podcast that helps you be the kind of advisor people can’t stop talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild, and on this week’s show, Steve and I are speaking with Gail Graham, and we’ve really been looking forward to this conversation. Gail recently founded Graham Strategy. Her goal is to work with larger wealth advisory firms who are really looking to transform their businesses, and you don’t have to look further than her last two positions to see why she’s exactly the person to do that.
Welcome, Gail.
Thanks, guys. It’s awesome to be with you.
Gail, there are so many things that I would love to talk to you about. I’m going to try to narrow the focus. One of the things that strikes me in talking to advisors is that when we talk about client experience and when we talk about referrals, it’s so easy to jump to the tactics. We jump straight there. What should you say? How you should approach it? But I would really love to start with your take on the strategy behind this. You have such a great strategic mind, but I wonder if we could just start and ask you, what do you think the big questions are for advisors? What should they be asking themselves as they start to think about growth and the future?
Great. Great question. As you know, I think of marketing as almost the frosting on the cake, that the strategy is the cake. It’s the substance of what you do. To me, there are two things that I think advisors should be really thinking about. One is really honestly saying, what am I doing that is so valuable that people should be willing to pay for it? Too many advisors talk in what I call the giant sea of sameness, the speak of our industry about things like comprehensive wealth management, and make assumptions that that’s what people value. When you really talk to people, and no one knows this better than Stephen, who’s just actually worked with me on a client advisory board. It was fascinating to hear people. What we think that they are paying for and what they think they’re getting in value are often different. If an advisor hasn’t really thought about making sure that they deliver something that people really value, then I think that they will not be successful.
Can I also ask a little bit, I wanted to dig into this with you, Gail, Julie mentioned how easy it is to get tactical. You think strategically, and you’ve operated at a strategic level for a long time. I think most advisors don’t really quite get the difference between strategy and tactics. Can you go into that a little bit, and how trying to figure out what people are willing to pay for and what they value about an experience is not as easy as just saying, what do you want from us?
Yeah. That’s a great question. In fact, I’m writing some articles for FA Magazine called DIY Marketing, and I’m working on one for October to try and define what is a strategic process that advisors can go through to help them before they start thinking about marketing tactics. Strategy really starts with, and you’ve got in your books, both of you have written about this. It really starts with understanding the market you’re going to serve and making some choices about who is the target audience, looking at what you offer more clearly and articulating it for that audience, being able to define what you offer in terms of tangible benefits and proof points. Let me explain what I mean by that. You can’t just have a strategy that, I’m going to serve affluent individuals who need retirement planning in the state of Pennsylvania.
Gail, I’d like to challenge you a little bit on the whole idea of the article that you just mentioned you were writing, about DIY marketing. I think one of the challenges is, as you mentioned before, advisors have a real difficult time getting out of the industry speak and getting out of—we all have this orientation, because many of these advisors have been in the business for decades, and they’ve been conditioned to what the industry says people are interested in, and they’re conditioned to the language that the industry uses. How realistic is it for people to say, here’s an article, and now that you have this article, you can break out of that and think creatively and ask the questions you haven’t been able to ask yourself before?
That’s a great question, considering we’re all in the consulting field.
At the risk of self-promoting.
No. Here’s the way I see it. People who are interested in getting healthy start to read about diet and exercise and then realize it’s really hard, and they go to a personal trainer. I’m trying to stimulate people to think. I believe, like you’ve said, when they do start to do the homework, they’re going to realize it’s hard and they may need help. Then, simply because of affordability factors, I think we want to offer that help like you’ve all done, with written work, books, and workshops, and moving on up the ladder to customize consulting help. I’m just trying to get people to pay a little attention to this stuff, and then I think we all have many different ways to help them and serve them. I would say that the two of you are really set up to help individual advisors far more than I do, which is why I’m writing. I’m more working with larger corporations at this point, or larger firms, but it’s not easy. I wouldn’t have spent 35 years in this business if it was easy, I guess.
Yeah. I think that’s so true, and I think you mentioned it at the outset, having done an advisory board. In my mind, there is more science than art sometimes to having a good conversation and drawing out the right information. I’d be the last person to try to oversimplify this, but just being able to talk to your clients and understand what it is they value, and doing that in the right way, sometimes that helps you break through as well. Just hearing the words that they use. You mentioned right at the outset, really needing to understand what they’re willing to pay for. I was wondering if you could also just talk a little bit about that. In your experience, what have you seen as the difference between what advisors think clients want to pay for, and what clients are saying they want to pay for?
I’ll give you a great—I’ll tell a story that I think is really interesting. I just was talking to an advisory firm this week, a firm I’m actually trying to do some work with them. They had a great experience, and they were so surprised. They talked to a person who is actually in charge of investments for a very large hospital health system. This person is a well-versed investment person, and they assumed going in that the conversation was going to be all about pitching the investments. What they found in the meeting was that this person got really engaged when they started talking about the fact that while they considered investments important, the most important thing was helping the advisor and client really talk about the goals for the person’s life and what they wanted to achieve.
Oh, absolutely. We’ve heard that from a lot of clients before. In fact, we’ve done this round of questions with a number of firms where we ask them to tell us about the best customer service experience they’ve ever had, to see what we could learn and incorporate into those advisors’ practices. One of the things that we found was, most of the best experiences were not inexpensive experiences. Most of the experiences that really stood out for them were companies that charge a premium for stuff that they do. So I totally agree with that.
Also, I find when we ask that question of, what’s the greatest experience? The art there is really digging into understand what’s at the bottom of that. Why did somebody say Disney? Or why did somebody say their local mechanic? Or why did somebody say their accountant? The whole process of the five whys and why, why, why, why, why? You get right down to some of those very common emotions. It’s interesting that clients were able to articulate that.
Yeah. It’s so funny, because for years, I ran consumer research as part of my role at Fidelity, when I was there for about a decade. I did a lot of consumer research. Everybody was like, it’s got to be quantitative. It can’t be random. Everyone has to defend their research, and I like quantitative research, but I have an opinion on this, which is that the whole world can get the same results from quantitative research if they ask the same questions. Everybody’s running around thinking they have insights. Those are not insights to me. They’re not insights. I find insights come, and this is what’s, I call it visceral research, is when you’re listening, and you’re not only listening to the words and you can probe, but you can see the body language of that person. Yes, it is not quantitative. It’s highly qualitative and subjective, but I also think that where insights come is when you have intuition and when you have a sense of things that may not even be able to be articulated fully. That’s when you find an insight. I guess I’ve almost, I’ve swung from being this lover of highly quantitative research to much more enjoying diary methods, storytelling, conversations like we did with the client advisory board, and other things that are murkier, but I think it’s where the insights are.
I’m a recovering quantitative—
To dig into what Julie said, it’s digging down in. It’s that five whys process that Julie, you mentioned. What I see with a lot of advisors is that what they do is, they adopt the superficial description of what they want to do. They say, we provide the white glove or the Ritz Carlton experience, but when you start drilling down, it’s really, there’s not a whole lot underneath that. What does that mean, exactly? What do you do with clients specifically that shows them that they care? What stories do you have, Ms. Advisor, about you providing the service above and beyond that generates that feeling toward you?
Yeah. You guys may know Kelly Decker. She teaches communications. She’s written a couple books. Made to Stick, I think. I loved, one time she was talking, and she said that one of the best advisors that she ever met from a marketing perspective, when people would say, what do you do? She would just turn to them and say, you know those nights when you can’t sleep? When you’re worried about everything going on in your life? When you can’t stop thinking about how much money is in your various accounts and ticking off how much you have and what’s your safety net? She went through this list. You know those nights? I’m the person you call first thing that morning. I thought that was great.
Yeah. I love that. I’d love to also get your perspective on, and look, everything we’re talking about, this is natural. We’ve got successful advisors and businesses for many years, and what we’re talking about is stretching the way they think about value. We’re saying this, but it’s very natural that we’re in this situation. How do you think advisors can translate this input, this thinking, this understanding of value into becoming more referable? What’s the connection there to getting clients to actually talk more about them and share those stories?
You know what’s interesting? In a way, I think some advisors think, I’ve got to think about marketing, so they build up some of this marketing persona around themselves like Teflon, using some of those language like you’ve just referenced, Steve. I actually think what advisors have inside themselves is their deep humanity, their personalities, and their good intentions. In fact, by being more authentic and really stopping trying to put the façade of professional marketing between them and their clients, it’s, be human. Really be human with people. Isn’t it funny how we can talk to someone, waiting in line at the grocery store and sometimes have a really great conversation with a stranger, because we’re just talking human to human? The best asset you have is you, and I believe that the best brand identity for an advisor is to first find how to really let their authentic self shine through, and work with clients where they are naturally and enjoyably able to engage and connect with them.
Yeah. I love that.
Your book kind of talks about that. If you want to love what you do, then bring your whole body and your whole spirit to it. Be who you are.
And it’s a process, let’s face it. It’s a process that for some of us comes with age, because we just can’t be bothered with the façade anymore. I know it’s a mind shift for so many. I’d love to pick up on what you just mentioned about brand there. We’re talking about who you are and what you represent, and brand. How do you see all of this tying into a brand for an advisor?
I think, on an advisor level, your brand is you. Everything that you exude, how you dress, how you speak, what you say, all of that, and the experience you deliver your clients. People will judge you based on your words, actions, and behaviors over time. I think, as I said before, the more you can be unique and be you, the better. I also think, here I’m telling you to be unique and be you, and maybe the you isn’t that super—one guy said, the real me is boring. I laughed and said, okay. That’s okay. Go with it.
Work the boringness.
The thing is, you should ask yourself, what makes you different from other people? Be willing to say, when someone asks you a question, because they are going to compare you to other advisors, know how to say to them, look, what’s different about me is…and just as simple as that. What’s different about me is, and it can be what’s different about me is that I have a really disciplined process, and it doesn’t look sexy, but it sure gets the job done. I make it really clear to people, step by step, where we’re headed. That boring guy. That’s where we landed was, he talked about his methodical approach and how much value it brought people.
It recalls the great 20th-century philosopher Raquel Welch, who said that style is being yourself, but on purpose.
Oh, Steve. It’s a Becoming Referable first, Raquel Welch has been quoted. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love that concept, that the brand really is you. If they are thinking now about trying to, I’m going to say create a brand, although I suppose it’s just uncover the brand in a way. What are the key components that they need to be thinking about when they sit down to say, all right, I know this is important. What should I be doing?
Brand is a combination of factors. What marketers debate and get philosophical about is that brand is everything. It’s not one thing. As a small business owner or an advisor, you want to say, do I have a strategy? Do I have a clear message for my brand? Have I decided the voice and personality of my brand? What I mean by that is, when I look at my website versus other people’s websites, does it reflect my strategy? Does it speak my message? And does it reflect my personality through its voice and its visual identity? All of those things need to be cohesive, and then the client experience. That part of the brand which is the marketing part of the brand, the stuff people look at and see when they check you out on the web or they look at your brochure, does it all have consistency? I will tell you this.
That’s interesting.
Yeah. Somebody had a fun time with the marketing there, but the client experience—the brand has to be you. It has to be clear. It has to be, again, strategy, message, voice, personality, and visual identity. Then, you have to say, what is my client experience? So that once somebody sees me and checks me out and then they come and do business with me, how does it stay consistent? The simplest parts of the client experience are, what are my meetings like? How do I hold my meetings? Everything down to, how do I run my meetings? How many meetings? Do I use agendas? Those kinds of things. What are the documents I share with my clients? Particularly, what does the plan that I offer my clients look like? Then, what is the service experience that they’re getting in my office from me and my staff?
You made a brief reference to it, but I think it’s worth emphasizing to our listeners, and that is that strategy is not what ads you run on what schedule. Strategy is everything. Like you said, and both of you, I’m sure, have heard this before. Your brand is not your logo and your website. Your brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room. In the Google era now, whatever your clients are saying about you to their friends, if that friend goes to your homepage and doesn’t see the same things that your friend just said, you’ve just lost the opportunity. When you do this kind of strategic work with advisors, how far down do you drive that? How do you help them get encouraged to get involved in all those service aspects and everything else about the firm?
Because of my practice being what it is, I’m only working with typically larger firms that already have a lot of infrastructure and staff in place. Maybe 20 people or more. They can go a little further, and that’s really a challenge. I’ve been trying to think a lot about, how do I help the smaller firm with whatever education support I could provide to keep it simple enough that it makes sense and they can pay attention to this important alignment between what you say, what you do, and what it feels like? The magic here is what it feels like, because that’s really a brand. If you say all this fancy stuff and your offices look like you just won the lottery and it’s a rich experience, but nobody feels like they just got top-drawer, amazing, luxurious experience, then it doesn’t matter. I think it’s a good question, Stephen. I don’t know that I have an answer to that.
How do you reconcile personal brand and firm brand? I know we certainly get this kind of question a lot from advisors who are in partnerships and who are grappling with what personal brand means when there are multiple advisors.
It’s funny. I’ll tell you, when I was at United Capital, and I’ll tell you, Joe Durant is a marketing machine, and one of the most fun partners in the world to work with, because he is so creative. We had a blast. One of the worst criticisms we could say at the firm, and it would be like the puppy has been slapped if you said this to someone is, look at them and say, that is off-brand. It’s so awesome when you’re in a place where the brand is so clear to people that all they have to do is look at you like—it reminds of the nuns that taught me in grade school. That is off-brand, and you’re like, oh, my God. I’m sorry.
Gail, that brings up something else that’s important, and that is that there are a lot of advisory firms that are built on that founder with a strong personality. Of course, a lot of what advisors can do to get their firms better known is speaking and getting quoted in the press and that kind of stuff, but how do you separate the personal brand from the firm brand, and build the firm brand so that the business has some staying power beyond the founder?
I’ll go back to with United Capital. From a retail perspective, meaning the consumer markets, when we used Joe as a spokesperson, it was very thoughtful and deliberate. I will tell you, he always used the language of “we”. We. That’s different than some others. Like Rick Edelman, he uses “I”, and he more is using “we” these days, and I admire him greatly, but I think that’s an example of a very much dominant personality-led firm. If I were in a mid-sized firm and I had a lead partner who was very vocal in my community, I would absolutely use that. It’s great to put a face to financial services these days. Think about it. There are very few faces. It’s not a human industry anymore. Even Ken Fisher, you don’t really see his face. You see Rick’s face. You sure don’t see any faces at Bank of America or Merrill Lynch. They’re all hiding. Humans like to see a face. They can attach to a face, but use “we” language. Talk about things, and be as humble as you can be when you do that. I think that’s an advantage to have a person with presence in the firm.
Yeah, absolutely. I’d love to take us back to the theme of referability. In my mind, I can see the connection here, but I wonder if you could draw out—let’s assume I’ve done this hard work. I’ve thought long and hard. I’ve defined who I am, why I’m different. In your mind, how do I then translate that into getting clients to either share those stories, or tell their friends and family about the experience that they’ve had?
I’ll give you an example. I think when you’re able to say clearly to people, I do something different. I have a different point of view, and then you prove it to them by delivering that difference, and it’s a difference that they value. People get excited because right now, my bet is there are a ton of people out in the marketplace today, consumers, who are unhappy with current financial services, skeptical that they’ll ever get anything better than they’ve already got. I keep talking to clients about, your aspiration should be that when people come to your firm, they are absolutely relieved, and they’re saying, oh, my God. I finally found it. This is what I’ve been looking for, like a good pair of shoes that fits. I’ll give you an example of one of the top interior designers in the state of South Carolina. She always says, I’m really not an interior designer. That’s how she starts.
Gail, let me clarify something there, because Julie’s research has demonstrated, it’s not that clients want to refer, and they don’t. Clients do refer, but very few of those people actually get all the way through to the advisor. I think a lot of it is in what you just said. It’s, they don’t have compelling things to say, and that interior designer has a compelling thing to say. At the same time, I’d like to get your thought on what kind of caution we should give advisors, because we see a lot of advisors who try to do that, but they end up getting too clever about it, and they come up with something that they think sounds smart or that they think sounds clever, but it really doesn’t communicate like that interior designer.
Yeah. Human speak is the language we need to speak, not marketing speak and sales speak. One of the reasons I spend so much time on messaging, and I really enjoy working on it is, whatever you’ve said or written, you can probably chop it in half and make it better. It’s simplification of your language, really getting it simple, and get feedback. Talk to people and say, does this make sense to you? It’s so funny how a person can get really frustrated and then they’ll finally just blurt out, okay, but here’s what I’m trying to say, and they’ll just say it. You’re like, well, then, why didn’t you just say that?
That’s it. That is it. You’ve said this to me in other conversations, Gail. It’s where you started. It’s like, what do you stand for? Having the—gosh, there’s so many words I could use there. The strength to commit, because it strikes me that the elephant in the room for advisors is that a really strong brand should exclude some people. Not exclude, but some people should look at it and go, yeah, that’s not for me. Then, you know you’ve got it right, because it’s going to be so right for other people. That’s such a fear of brand is, how can I water this down to the point where it may not be right for everybody, but it won’t offend anybody? It doesn’t work.
I think that’s another, I love having people—I play with these little games and say, okay, if I say, what’s different about me is—okay. Tell me what that is. Then, have them practice saying, what we do isn’t for everybody, and then there’s a little pause. By the way, you say that at a cocktail party? Everyone else around you is pretending everything is for everybody? You’re like, what we do really isn’t for everybody. Little pause. The kind of people that work with us are people who blah, blah, blah. It’s very attractive. I know for myself that if you follow me on Twitter, it’s @TheGrahamBrand. I think a lot about my own brand now that I’m on my own, building a consulting practice. I truly am not for everybody. I will only work with crazy people. That’s my goal.
That would make for an interesting career.
I just think there’s magic in deciding you’re not for everybody.
Yeah. I love that. It’s probably a great place to stop, because I know, as per usual, we could go on forever, but promised not to. Thank you so much for your time. I love that we’ve taken the conversation to a more strategic level. I think it’s so important. It’s hard work, but I really appreciate those insights.
You guys are awesome, and good friends. I’m glad that we had this time together. So, thanks.
Yeah, me too. Thank you, Gail, for joining us. It’s great to talk with you. If someone does run a bigger firm and they’re interested more in what you do, how would they find you?
Go to LinkedIn. Link in with me, and InMail is a good way. Or, go Gail@GrahamStrategy.com. That’s my email. As I said, I’m really trying to redesign my life and work very selectively, and to have a little more free time. I’m not really taking a lot of clients, but I want to find the right partnerships to work with over a longer period of time. I’d certainly be happy to have conversations with people.
Wonderful. We’ll get that in the show notes, and thank you so much.
Thank you. Take care, everybody.
Hey, folks. Steve again. Thanks for joining us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes. It really helps. You can get all the links, show notes, and other tidbits from these episodes at BecomingReferable.com. You can also get our free Report, Three Referral Myths that Limit your Growth and connect with our blogs, and other resources. Until next time, so long.