Participants:
Steve Wershing
Julie Littlechild
Jay Coulter
Julie:
Welcome to another episode of Becoming Referable. The podcast that helps you be the kind of advisor people can’t stop talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild and on this week’s show, Steve and I are speaking with Jay Coulter.
Jay is an investment strategist. He’s a practice management consultant. He’s an author. And he’s a speaker. He doesn’t just run one business, that would be too easy. He has two businesses that focus on helping financial advisors, their teams, as well as their firms. Jay is also the host of the Resilient Advisor podcast. And I’ve had the pleasure of being a guest on that podcast, so it’s nice to turn the tables on Jay today.
We talk to Jay about how he’s been so successful in building a platform that literally reaches hundreds of thousands of people and the lessons that advisors can learn from that. We talk to him about the science of influence and how that can impact your growth. And we walk through a systematic approach for staying in front of clients and prospects. And with that, let’s get straight to our conversation with Jay.
Well Jay, welcome to the show. So thrilled to have you here today.
Jay:
Thanks so much for having me.
Julie:
So look. I want to talk a lot about the work that you’re doing. But I think it might be really interesting and helpful to start with a brief history of Jay. So I know a big part of your career has been working as an advisor. Is that right? Can you talk a bit about your path from there to here and what you’re doing today?
Jay:
Yeah, absolutely. So in a nutshell, I’ve spent about 20 years in the financial services industry, primarily serving financial advisors in various roles with large asset manager brands. Like Lehman Brothers, Schwab, Morgan Stanley, Guggenheim. But I did work for three years after the ‘08 crisis as a portfolio manager and financial planner on a team at a wirehouse. And that experience has really helped me serve financial advisors as a consultant since I’ve sat in their seat before. In the last couple of years, I’ve really been focused on my consulting and coaching businesses that serve financial advisors.
Julie:
Okay, great. So you had that view as an advisor, but you’ve been watching advisors and working with them and seeing the challenges that they had. And I assume that that led you to the business that you’ve got today. What were some of the problems that you thought you could solve and really wanted to help advisors to solve?
Jay:
From the seat I’m in today, I have a really, really interesting view, in that I get to work with large IRAs to wirehouse producers to the independent. So I get a view on really what some of the top advisors are doing in terms of best practices. And really, from this consultant seat, I’m able to help advisors implement those types of systems inside their practices.
Julie:
Yeah. That makes sense. One of the things I’m interested in is that you’re helping advisors obviously to build their businesses, but looking at your own business, you have built a really incredibly large network of your own. So you really walk the walk in that way. I was looking, I don’t know if I’ve got all the numbers right, but it looks like you’ve got over 200,000 social media followers, a podcast that is heard in 90 countries. Can you just talk to us about your own experience in building that network? What worked? What didn’t? And the impact that that had on the business.
Jay:
Absolutely. And I get asked this question a lot just because we do have a pretty substantial following on social media, or as I like to call it, digital media.
In 2012, my wife and I realized that we could significantly grow our non-profit by leveraging those digital media platforms and really we built that brand by trial and error. And through that whole trial and error process of growing, leveraging Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we learned that there are really three drivers to building a brand that I was then able to go and apply to my professional platform. And that platform is The Resilient Advisor, where we have a podcast, a book. And I use that to get my content out in the marketplace.
And those three drivers are value, consistency and authentic connection. So when you think about adding value to the marketplace, what we learned in the beginning is any time we were in the market, posting about things that only we cared about or anything that came across as a sales pitch, we really didn’t see a whole lot of engagement. Now, that makes sense to everybody on this podcast, but in 2012, that isn’t really the way the market was doing it. We switched gears and we made sure that all we did was add value to the people who were following us. And we saw our number of followers and the people engaging in our community skyrocket.
Steve:
Can you give us a few examples of how you add value to people who follow you on digital media?
Jay:
Yeah. So specifically, my podcast, and I know that you guys have experienced that. We don’t sell anything as it relates to our consulting services. We specifically go out and we look for value added providers that can serve our community. And it’s a small community. It’s just financial advisors. You know, Julie’s been on my podcast talking about how financial advisors can engage. And what we have found is when people are out searching for content to help them with their business, or they run across it simply because they’re following us on LinkedIn, Twitter or Facebook, adding that value increases the amount of time they will spend with the content and come back to new content.
Julie:
And so consistency was the second thing. Now, I’m assuming that consistency doesn’t mean frequency. It just means that you pick how often you want to release and make sure you stick to it. Is that the case? Or do you see a difference in terms of frequency?
Jay:
No, actually you just nailed it. So some folks think that they need to post on a very, very frequent basis. And I am not a digital media, social media expert. And I cannot tell you what the algorithms are looking for today. I just know over the last six or seven years, if we have a regular posting schedule where we’re adding the content, we see our numbers go up and our engagement go up. When we’re kind of flying by the seat of our pants, those numbers tend to decline. And I’m curious, have you guys had the same experience with your platform?
Julie:
Absolutely.
Steve:
Yeah, totally.
Julie:
And it was a struggle, right. How often can I publish something that I feel good about? And for me, it’s once a week. But that’s a … there’s a lot of work that goes into it. But that consistency has a huge impact. I’d agree with that.
Steve:
Yeah, I see the same thing. I can look at the number of unique visitors to my site on a monthly basis. And when I’m on my game and I’m posting something up every week, it climbs and climbs and climbs. And if I miss a week or two, you can see it almost immediately start dropping off.
Jay:
Yeah. And I think there’s a backfill to that as well. So when folks reach out to me and maybe they have something of value they think my audience would appreciate. And I go and do my research on them, if they haven’t been posting consistently, that really doesn’t make them as valuable of a potential interview on the podcast or somebody to engage with in the community, so it kind of goes on both sides of the equation.
Julie:
I’d love to pick up on your final point there, which was authentic connection. Can you give me some examples of what that means for you and your business? And then maybe pivot over to how advisors can create that kind of authentic connection?
Jay:
Yeah. So as the wild west of digital media was growing, there seemed to be this trend of people buying followers, buying a platform and not coming across as genuine or authentic. And what I learned through specific interactions with people is that if you take the time to answer folks, to thank them for connecting with you if possible and really engaging with your community in an authentic, non-AI robot generated way, your platform grows exponentially. And with The Resilient Advisor platform, which the podcast launched in January of last year. My first podcast launched in 2012. That was in the non-profit space. That’s where I made all the mistakes and didn’t do this engagement. With The Resilient Advisor podcast, any time an advisor interacted with me, I was engaging with the person who reached out. And that made all the difference in the world.
Have you guys found that as you guys have grown your podcast and your brand?
Julie:
This is, as you’re saying it, I wrote down, “I need to do a better job at this.” I completely agree with you, and yet it is so easy to just … you know, people might follow you on Twitter. And I always, I love it when I get a thank you back that is clearly not robotic. And I hate it when it is one of those automated robot-type, “Thank you. Here’s what I do. Let’s grab 20 minutes on the phone.” Because you know it was automated.
So I think … I don’t know. I’ve got room to improve there, for sure. Just to take the time to do it.
Steve:
And Jay, you know, I’ve worked to try to make sure that I do respond to everybody who stops by and interacts with the stuff that I put out. But I’d love to hear your thoughts about how to get more of that going. How do you get more people to interact with it so you’ve got somebody to respond to?
Jay:
Well, there’s obviously the reactionary approach, if somebody’s asking you a question. Or you see some type of dialogue in your Twitter feed or in LinkedIn. One thing I have found helpful and we’ll probably get into this in a little bit more detail later, but I have a LinkedIn group that’s just for financial advisors. And when folks choose to join that, I’m able to reach out to them individually, ask them what type of content they’re looking for. And then take that conversation offline, because that makes it even more authentic when we’re engaging in an email communication, versus something on a cold, digital media platform.
Julie:
Right. If we think about then, what does that mean for advisors? If you take the lessons that you learned the hard way, by actually doing it. How do you then translate all of that into something helpful for advisors?
Jay:
I get a lot of questions from financial advisors where they’ve received a solicitation from some firm that is going to handle all of their “social media interactions” for them. So they’re going to provide the value for them, in terms of content, they’re going to do it on a regular basis. And then they even say that they’re going to respond to messages for them. And I have yet to see an experience where that works effectively.
So to answer your question directly, what advisors could do, and I understand there are limitations due to compliance in terms of content that could be produced for folks inside of some broker dealers, but it’s not necessarily the place outside of the broker dealers. Start your own blog. Create your own content so people have an ability to see your story. See the message that you’re putting out there. Put it out consistently, and then make sure you are doing it, not somebody on your team.
Julie:
Could I just pick up on the blogs? I have this feeling that when you say, “Start your own blog”, a lot of people go fuzzy and their eyes glaze over and they think, “I couldn’t possibly”. Could you maybe try to break that down and just give somebody some advice so that it doesn’t feel big and daunting and scary?
Jay:
Yeah, so Julie, I have the face for podcasting. That’s why I podcast. And I also, I’m not a very good writer, even though I have two books out there. It’s hard and I understand that. What you will find is that writing blogs do not have to be as long as Michael Kitces’ essays that he puts out every week that are packed full of great content. It can be simple, just in my experience, 200 to 300 word blogs. You can even use the LinkedIn blogging platform. All it does, and we’ll talk about this later, is that helps create this authoritative brand for you and your market, and it just doesn’t take as much time as it could for folks, like you said, whose eyes are glossing over at the idea of doing it.
Steve:
And let me jump in Jay, with two things. One, just very briefly, for all the compliance officers who are listening to this who just had a heart attack a minute ago, as a former compliance officer I can tell you, if you are licensed in the securities business in the US, there is no such thing as outside of your relationship with your broker dealer. Everything you do has to be okay with the compliance department. But I just wanted to … and I’m sure that you knew that, I just wanted to clarify for the listeners, because it almost sounded like, “Well, you can do this outside of work.” But if it’s about the business, you can’t.
Anyway, what I wanted to ask was, you were just talking about shorter posts so that they’re not quite as daunting. And I’ve seen a debate going on about the relative merits of shorter posts versus longer posts and how they affect how Google’s algorithm will prioritize you and help keep you at the top of search rankings and that kind of stuff.
Do you have thoughts about that? About the 2 to 300, versus the 1,000 or 1,200 words or more?
Jay:
Yeah. I guess I can really only speak to my experience. But to go back to what you said Steve, I apologize if I was not clear. If you’re at a broker dealer, use the blogs and the contents that your firm provides for you. If you’re at an RIA, you can produce your own content and then get it out.
You’re right Steve. We don’t want to get anybody in trouble.
Steve:
Well let me clarify that. I’m a huge supporter. In fact, I’m a really strong believer that people need to be generating their own content. I just wanted to clarify that, because they can generate their own content, they just have to get it approved by their compliance folks before they can release it.
Jay:
Excellent.
Steve:
But then actually, and actually, you know, I don’t like the stuff that’s produced by, sorry guys, all the marketing departments within broker dealers or even the marketing companies that sell things to broker dealers. I really, I believe like you do, it needs to be authentic, it needs to come, it needs to be specific to your niche, it needs to come from you, it’s just a question of what do you need to do before you send it out there, to be compliant.
Jay:
Yeah. Excellent.
Steve:
Anyway, but about the short versus long. So you’ve gotten good engagement with the shorter posts?
Jay:
Well, you know as a podcaster, I’ve actually gotten great engagement with shorter clips of podcasts. Let me explain.
I can take a podcast and put it in my LinkedIn profile or on Facebook or on Twitter. And folks may click through and they may start to download the podcast. I can also take a clip of a podcast, put a video overlay on it and keep that clip to 60 to 90 seconds and let that run in a feed with then a link to the full episode if they’re interested.
So I give them a snippet or a piece of 60-second content. And that seems to get a very high amount of engagement. It might speak to the attention span of our industry and society as a whole, but I’m finding that to be highly effective.
Steve:
Yeah, well that’s very interesting, because I’ve heard a lot about the value of video and alternative media than just texts. So when you post a clip from it, is it a video clip of you doing the podcast, or is it a clip of something related to the podcast? Or what are you actually posting?
Jay:
So specifically, if somebody comes on the podcast, when Julie came on, I create what I call a digital promo card, which is basically a digital card that has her picture on it and the name of the podcast. So then when I create the video, I take that card and I overlay it on the music and then add some stock footage of buildings. High rises. And then put the card on again at the end. And so it delivers at the beginning with her picture and the name of the podcast and then some video images. And then of course, the link is in the content place, so they go watch the full podcast, if they want to.
Steve:
Oh interesting. Very interesting.
Julie:
I also wonder if the length issue just has to do with what’s going to be the best quality. And we’re all a little different. I’ve always joked that I can’t write anything less than 1,000 words. I sit down and I think, I’m just going to write a quick one today. And it just doesn’t happen. And I think, Seth Godin would probably argue that he’s done alright with short blog posts. You know. So who knows. I mean, I guess what’s going to be best? What’s going to be the most powerful?
Jay:
And maybe it’s both. Maybe you write the longer content and then break it into smaller pieces with links to the longer.
Julie:
Yeah.
Steve:
Well, and the beauty of the internet is that you can test it. You can try it. Try a month of short ones and a month of long ones, where you can look at your engagement and sort it by the length of what you put out there, to see which one draws.
Julie:
I’d love to take this into the whole broader topic, I guess, about thought leadership and authority. And Jay, I mean, how can advisors enhance their authority? How can they become thought leaders in their markets?
Jay:
Well, it takes a system to get that done. And you have to understand that it’s a long game to become an authority in your market. But there are specific things that you can do that I’ve learned over time have a really high impact.
The first is to choose the correct digital platforms for your brand and whatever market you’re operating in. And I’d love y’all’s thoughts on this, but it seems to me that LinkedIn is a must, Facebook and Instagram, because they’re tied together, seems to work for folks that are targeting certain demographics. And then Twitter seems to capture other niches. What do you guys think?
Steve:
You’re right Jay. I think it depends entirely on the target market. So if you’re shooting for retail clients as individuals, as families, the personal stuff that Facebook can be really effective. And if you’re aiming for folks in a professional market, because you’re aiming for executive business owners, those kinds of folks, that LinkedIn might be a better choice, if it can be more effective in certain circumstances. Julie, how about you?
Julie:
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t have too much to add to that. I think it really depends on where your audience is. And you kind of figure it out as you go, right, where you’re getting the engagement.
Jay:
And then I would say, after you determine where they are, you want to become obviously very familiar with the platform. And then apply those three drivers we were talking about earlier to being a thought leader. Adding value, being consistent and then having that authentic connection with your audience.
Specifically, we’ve already talked a little bit about the content, whether it’s blog posts, podcasts or even if you’re really creative, you could get into the video space. But there is an opportunity on all these platforms for community building. And as long as you’re within the bumper rails of your compliance rules, LinkedIn gives you the opportunity to create groups.
And so, for example, from my experience, I have a group called The Resilient Advisor Podcast group, where I just post content pertinent to financial advisors. So when I connect with an advisor, I invite them into that group. And all that is, is a value proposition. And you can do the exact same thing on Facebook.
I’ll give you an example of an advisor who is really big into the Land Rover groups. And he started his own group that focuses on just bringing together people that are enthusiasts of Land Rover. Inside that group, he’s not talking about financial planning or investment portfolios, but he’s connecting with people who are, fit his ideal client profile. And because of those groups, there’s really a great opportunity to connect with your niche markets.
Julie:
So, as advisors are perhaps looking at all of these opportunities and choosing the path that makes most sense to them, how do you find that all of that activity can translate into referrals or support the referral process?
Jay:
So the first rule is to understand it takes a while to build those relationships, just like it does in the real world. But if you’re adding value, you’re consistent. And then you are authentic, after you’ve made that connection. Meaning your assistant isn’t sending the messages for you, you don’t have some AI platform doing it. That’s where you can start to make real connections.
As Jim Rohn once said, “You can’t pay someone to do your push-ups for you.” You have to be the one on the platform, connecting with folks, doing the research. That’s right. And what I have found though, is that the folks that do that, do make those real connections and then take them off the digital platforms to really, really solidify that and turn prospects into clients.
Steve:
So Jay, you talked about … I’m sorry. Did you want to follow up.
Julie:
No, you go ahead.
Steve:
I was just going to ask, you’ve talked about scientifically valid influence techniques that can be applied to those digital efforts. Can you tell us more about that, the science behind that influence?
Jay:
Yeah, and to be honest with you, this kind of brings out the nerd in me. So there was a book written in 2006 called Influence, which I know a lot of listeners read. And it was written by Dr. Robert Cialdini. I always butcher his last name. But his research is fantastic. And in this book, that was obviously written before these digital media platforms were available. He identified six triggers that people are influenced by. And three of those triggers really apply to the digital space.
The first is the idea of reciprocity. So if someone does something for us, we as humans feel obliged at some level to do something to reciprocate. And so, at the basic level, that leads to connection requests. Somebody reaches out to you, you feel like you need to respond and potentially connect with them. But for the financial advisor that wants to go deeper with that, if they’re connected with somebody that fits their ideal client and they post an article, take the time to read the article and then send them a message referencing the article, something in there that shows that you read it. And then if you think about it from a human nature perspective, the next time that advisor posts something, that prospect is going to probably recognize the post and potentially even pay a little more attention to what they deliver.
Julie:
So, reciprocity was the big one. Were there another couple of things from that that apply here?
Jay:
Yep. Two more. And for any nerds listening to this that want to go deeper, I highly recommend the book. The two other concepts are, authority and social proof. So research shows that we’re hard wired as a society to trust people in positions of authority, until that trust is lost, obviously. And thanks to digital metrics, such as the number of followers, content shares, likes, etc., we can establish ourselves as a thought leader over time with these digital platforms.
And the last one, the concept of social proof. Where research shows that we’re strongly influenced by the behavior of others. And that’s why you see terms like “Best Selling” in front of products, because it gives consumers the idea that, “Hey. Everybody is consuming this”. So if you think about that from a financial advisor’s perspective, if they have built a digital brand for themselves where they have followers, they’re active in their community, they’re going to have a much higher likelihood of being able to engage with those prospects.
Julie:
Yeah. So we’re talking really about influence and about connection. Maybe I could get even more granular and look at some of the nuts and bolts. Because I know that you talk a lot and have done a lot of work about having a system to stay connected. Can you talk us through what a system would look like?
Jay:
Yes. So in my experience, and I tend to get on my soap box about this, so you guys might have to slow me down a little bit. In my experience, having a relationship management system is an integral part to really becoming referable in growing your network. Yet I’ve worked with some of the top performing advisors in this industry and rarely do I begin an engagement where somebody already has that in place. And a great way to know if you already have a solid relationship system, is to map out what happens when you make a new connection of value. Whether it’s on a digital platform or in the real world. And for most people, nothing happens when they get that business card or they connect with somebody on LinkedIn that could be of value. Unless, the simplest thing is they might get added to a digital Rolodex, but nothing happens after that. We’re all guilty of it, but having processes in place to make sure you stay in front of those folks, is really where you can move the needle on your business.
Steve:
Can you get a little more granular about that? What kind of thing might you have.
Jay:
Absolutely. So the creator of Dilbert, a gentleman named Scott Adams, has one of my favorite sayings. “Losers have goals. Winners have systems.” And so the only way you’re going to be able to stay in touch with those contacts that you make over time and add value to your network is to have a system. I call my system The Pinger System. And it’s really, really simple, by design.
So there are four components to this type of relationship management system. First you have to define whatever technology you would like to use. It could be Outlook, it could be some type of task system inside Google. It could be your CRM. All it has to have is a reoccurring function that’s tied to a contact.
Secondly, you want to define what a ping means to you. So there was a book written about 20 years ago called, “Never eat alone” by Keith Ferrazzi. Great book on networking. In fact, I still think it’s one of the best in the marketplace, even though it’s 20 years old. And in there, he defines a ping as a quick, casual greeting. And that’s what it is at its simplest form. Because of digital media today, it’s easier than ever to ping people. It used to be, you had to pick up the phone and call, write an email, text or gosh forbid, write a letter to somebody. But now you can jump on digital media and like something, share something, comment, message. And it just makes it easier to ping folks.
The third component is to figure out how many contacts you should have in your pinger system. And there’s some research behind this. Robin Dunbar, out of Oxford University, did an anthropological study. In it he found that the average human can only have 150 real relationships. And apparently it has something to do with the size of your brain. So you guys might be able to have more friendships that I can. But in general, we can only have about 150. And in my experience, and working with people as they build a relationship management system, is they think grandiose in the beginning, when really, you just need to identify those 150 contacts that you need to be in front of on a regular basis.
Which brings me to the fourth component of how often do you want to ping these folks and stay in touch with them? Over the years, really ever since I’ve read Keith Ferrazzi’s book 20 years ago, I’ve played with different ping cycles where you’re touching people every two weeks, every month. You know, every two months, every quarter, every year. It can just be overwhelming. I have found the most effective thing to do, when you meet somebody and you decide you want to stay in front with them, you ping them once a month or once every six months. And that binary approach helps you better identify who those 150 people are and stay in front of them once a month.
Does that make sense at a high level?
Julie:
Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s funny, just as you’re talking, I’m thinking it’s interesting how the idea of authenticity and systemization come together. So we’re human. So we need a process to remind us. But then, the actual contact itself, that’s where authenticity really comes in. I don’t think to ping 150 people, but I can remind myself to do something meaningful. Is that fair?
Jay:
Not only is that fair, that nails it. So at a granular level, if you have 150 people that you’re pinging once a month, that’s just five people a day. Five quality people that you are systematically being told to go out and touch. So, I want to make sure that your listeners get a lot of value out of this interview. I have created a link on my website for your listeners where I will show them exactly how to go build this complimentary, this is free. They can do it in Outlook and start their own pinger system today. The link for that is JayCoulter.com/becomingreferable. That’s J-a-y-c-o-u-l-t-e-r.com/becomingreferable.
Julie:
Oh, that’s so great. Thank you for doing that.
Steve:
Yeah, that’s great. Thank you.
Julie:
Because I know it’s really helpful. And we’ll make sure we put that in the show notes as well.
There was one other thing. I saw a reference to this in your material. You called it a digital supernova campaign, I think, if I’m getting that. What is that?
Jay:
So this is a process that I walk clients through that I have found to be the single most effective way to jump starting a pinger system and re-engaging with old relationships. On the link that I just gave your listeners, there’s a worksheet and a video on how to execute your own digital supernova. But at a high level, here’s the process. You download your LinkedIn contacts and add them to the digital supernova worksheet that I’ve provided. You then categorize those contacts based upon somebody that you’re going to ping once a month, once every six months or not ping. You then take that spreadsheet and you turn it over to your assistant and ask them to add them five at a time to your pinger system.
Going through this process, I’ve seen clients uncover multiple seven figure accounts. Let me give you a couple of stories. So one gentleman started the process. The same day, he decided to reach out to an old fraternity brother. And that fraternity brother said, “Well, I’m so glad you reached out. I just sold a building and I’ve got $1.2 million in cash. Do you know what I should do with that?”.
Another client went through the process. After about a week, somebody came up in his pinger system that was an old client he hadn’t done business with in 10 years. He reached out and just said, “Hey. Just thought I’d check in with you. How are things going?” He said, “I’m glad you reach out. I’m retiring next month and I need some help planning.” Turned out, he had $15 million in stock options he needed to work through. So to be clear, this system is not magic. All it does is force you to go out and reach out to the people in a systematic way that you already should have been touching.
Julie:
Yeah.
Steve:
And are those pings things like you just said. Like, “Hey. Just checking in. Seeing how things are going?” Or are there other things that you might have in those touches?
Jay:
So they’re designed to be very simple in nature. And open ended. And here’s what I mean by that. There are systems in the marketplace where you can load contacts in and they’ll tell you when it’s time to send somebody an email, when it’s time to call them, when it’s time to text them. If your firm allows you to do that. What I have found is, you never know when somebody comes up as it’s their time to ping them, what’s going on in the market. So if there’s stress in the bond market and you know a prospect is a big bond buyer, you might ping them with something about the bond market. Or if you ran into somebody in the grocery store and they show up in your pinger system, say, “Hey. It’s good to see you in the grocery store the other day.” And take on a more authentic conversation that way.
The idea, Steve, is to keep it open ended so you can be authentic.
Julie:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So, these are great, because there is simplicity in what you’re saying. And yet, I think we’ve all experienced when we actually finally get systematic on something, it makes such a huge difference. So I really, I appreciate that thinking and really appreciate the resources.
Is there something that you think advisors can do as a first step to get clients talking about them? Just coming out of this, if you had to pick one thing.
Jay:
Well, I tell you what. You guys have a great resource on your website. And I encourage listeners if they have not been there yet, to go to BecomingReferable.com and downloading the Three Referral Myths That Can Limit Your Growth. And in there, you guys talk about the power of sharing stories, of problems they’ve solved for clients. And I know this is something you guys teach. I have found that to be one of the most impactful ways to get clients, to start talking about them and their brands.
Julie:
That’s wonderful. Well, thank you. Again, you’ve mentioned so many different resources. So we’re going to make sure we get all of that in the show notes. But just wanted to say thank you so much for your time today.
Jay:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me on.
Steve:
Yeah Jay. Thanks very much for joining us.
Jay:
Yeah. I really appreciate the invitation, guys.
Steve:
Hey folks. Steve again. Thanks for joining us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes. It really helps. You can get all the links, shows notes and other tidbits from these episodes at BecomingReferable.com. You can also get our free report, Three Referral Myths That Limit Your Growth and connect with our blogs and other resources.
So until next time, so long.