Participants:
Steve Wershing
Julie Littlechild
Susan Bradley
Julie Littlechild:
Welcome to another episode of Becoming Referable, the podcast that helps you be the kind of advisor people can’t stop talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild and on this week’s show, Steve and I are joined by Susan Bradley. Susan is the founder of the Sudden Money Institute, which focuses on equipping advisors with both the skills and the tools that they need to really focus on the personal side of money and help clients going through transitions, which I think we can agree is probably every client at some point.
She shares this great story about the moment she realized that advisors, and she was one at the time, were not formally equipped to deal with many of the issues that came up when clients were going through a significant transition in their lives, and she wanted to fill that gap. Susan is the creator of the Certified Financial Transitionist designation. She’s the author of the Sudden Money: Managing a Financial Windfall book, and she’s a TEDx speaker.
In our conversation, we talk with Susan about change and transition and how she helps advisors deal with both of those things more effectively. She talks about and shares the skills that are required and some of the gaps that she sees for advisors today. We talk about how these skills can impact your business and how they can make you more referable, and I know you’re going to love what she has to share. With that, let’s get to our conversation with Susan.
Well, Susan, welcome. So happy to have you here today.
Steve Wershing:
Yeah. Welcome, Susan.
Susan Bradley:
My pleasure.
Julie Littlechild:
Look, I’ve got so many questions to ask you. I should say, though, that the last time I saw you … And I can’t say this about everyone. We were driving around the streets of Mumbai, trying to find a tailor. That was my last experience with you. This will be a little different. I think we’re now in a territory we know something about.
Steve Wershing:
I would have-
Susan Bradley:
We could have used Steve that day, too. It would have been good.
Julie Littlechild:
We probably could’ve. We probably could have. It was a great experience. Susan and I had the opportunity to speak with Network FP in Mumbai, and it was just an awesome experience, but we did go on a little adventure.
Steve Wershing:
That’s very cool. What’s a trip to India without an adventure like that, right?
Julie Littlechild:
Exactly. Exactly. Susan, before I jump into the 101 questions I’d love to ask you, it might be helpful just to start with a little background. Maybe you can just tell us a little bit about the work that you do with advisors and maybe even just the path to this point.
Susan Bradley:
The path to this point. Okay. My background is that I am a CFP from the early ’80s. Loved the profession, always have and probably always will, but I’m no longer a practitioner. I sold my practice almost 15 years ago so that I could concentrate fully on what was then the Sudden Money Institute, still is, but we have an active division that we talk a lot about now.
The way that I made that shift is that I realized through some events that my training had not really prepared me for people that were in what we call a Sudden Money Experience, and I thought beyond that as I was looking at divorce and widowed people and business owners, etc. I realized that when life changed, money changed, and I didn’t really have a change management model built into my financial planning model that I was using, had been using for over 20 years at that point.
Steve Wershing:
Susan, could we dig into that a little? Because if I remember correctly, that exploration on your part actually came out of a class action lawsuit.
Susan Bradley:
That’s right. That’s right. It was a group of 300 or so women, it was against Dow Chemical for actual and possible medical complications because of breast implants. And the lead lawyer on this who was the lead partner in a major PI firm was telling me about what the women were doing. They were what we now call future spending. They were making commitments to other people, to themselves, mortgages, cars, etc., that they would take care of when the money came in.
That’s a shocking thing for a financial planner to hear, and when I said, “How many people will have money a year after you get it for them?” And he said, “Slim to none.” And I was absolutely shocked, and I said, “That just can’t be. That just can’t be.” And he said, “It’s not my job.” Just like, “Pass the salt.”
And that comment really … When I look back on it, I didn’t understand then, that changed the direction of my career and my life. I went to fill in the blanks and figure out what I could do. I was going to write a white paper for that firm and we had negotiated that, and I thought other people in the profession would have done this ahead of me.
I went to the academics, I went to some of the larger chapters, trying to find somebody to tell me about it, and I was just going to write about it. I didn’t need to create it. But it didn’t exist, and Dow went into bankruptcy and so did many of the women. It just wasn’t okay. For whatever reason, I couldn’t leave it alone. That’s the beginning.
Julie Littlechild:
And when you say, “It.” What was the problem that you were trying to solve for at the time, and continued to do today, I guess?
Susan Bradley:
In general terms, I thought the problem for, say, future spending or for a widow or for people retiring that were making choices and decisions that really seemed to be against their well-being, I thought the problem was financial literacy. If you look at it from a point of view of financial literacy, you will frequently get nowhere. It’s really transition literacy.
I have been in the financial literacy movement since, I guess, the beginning of it and NEFE people like that are doing fabulous work and it’s really, really important, but it does not cut it when life is shifting. When money is changing and life is changing.
It is a transition and we did not have a financial transition model. How to help people anticipate, manage expectations. How to sort and prioritize the clutter of decisions. How to help people make one or two decisions when it looks like they have 100. How to get comfortable with uncertainty and give yourself time to figure it out. How to understand what really needs to happen in meetings and communication and presenting information and helping people when they’re cognitively impaired for a while. When they have language impairment. It’s all temporary, well-recognized, the psychologists call it … They call it a disorder. They call it, “adjustment disorder”.
The problems we’re seeing by many different disciplines, but in our discipline, we really needed a way, I thought, to step in and address the challenges and help people make good, strong decisions instead of a range of regrettable ones.
Julie Littlechild:
You have this great TED talk, by the way, and I’ll make sure we put the link in the show notes. You start by saying, “Change will launch the next chapter of your life, whether you want it to or not.” Which I thought is a great comment. It sounds like it started with tackling change about what was then, I guess, the Sudden Money concept, but you’re talking about change and transition in a much broader context, it seems to me.
Susan Bradley:
Yeah. The more I got into this, the more I realized the depth and the whole scope of it. It’s a forest for the trees kind of thing. Back then, I didn’t really see that transitions and change drove our industry, and it’s clear as day now and more people are staring to see it now, but we didn’t use the word transition.
Change management was pretty radical 20 years ago. When we’re looking at this situation, if we don’t have training, it is normal for advisors to step away from the personal side and keep presenting the technical information, which is like the financial literacy. It’s the correctness of what the algorithms say, and what the cash flow indicates and things like that.
Steve Wershing:
Susan, what I love about your insight about this is that I hear a lot of advisors talking about identifying people who have money and motion and they’re just looking at it as a technical exercise. But what you developed is what I would call a psychosocial niche. You’re addressing not just the financial aspects of it, but how you prepare people to be in a position to understand and accept your advice. It goes just beyond the financial planning concepts.
Susan Bradley:
Yeah. It really had to, Steve, because the more you look at this as we did in the early 2000s, it really … If you look at it from this perspective, into traditional financial planning, that as I said, I embraced and I hoped that I was well-trained in. When you look at people going through these major life events, our process is a mess. It’s woefully short-sighted, and it becomes the client’s fault when they don’t make good decisions, or they freeze up and make no decisions, or they had the money intact, but their relationships are falling apart.
There’s all this, I think, unnecessary loss of well-being, let’s keep it broad like that. And there is no profession like the financial planning-based profession, now we call it the financial transitionist profession, but there is no profession in the world that can address this like we can.
If you look up WebMD and you look up that disorder, the adjustment disorder, they say you go to the doctor and the doctor does MRIs and things like that and see as if you had some compromise physiologically, if not go home and deal with it or go to a psychiatrist. That’s really what it says, but they yet see all the behaviors, compromising behaviors, that we see.
It’s just that’s their discipline, that’s their responsibility. They see it that way. We see it from the money side, but if you expand our profession to be the whole person, the human, we talk about the future is human, if you see it from the human side, you can’t leave that personal part undone. You can’t continue without real, measurable, and continuous expertise on the personal side.
Julie Littlechild:
Do you think the reason when you say that the planning profession wasn’t necessarily delivering on this for many years, do you think it was an issue of skillset? Do you think it was an issue perhaps of fear of just looking at going that deep on some of these things? Or maybe just perspective, not looking at the whole human in the way that you are? What do you think caused that?
Susan Bradley:
I think it’s where our culture was at back then. I started in the ’80s. ’80s, ’90s, early 2000. The view of the whole person was really starting to take shape in the early ’90s. But the industry is really focused on bottom line and bottom line is easier to measure if you stuck to the numbers.
I mean, look at how much trouble parts of the industry have with just accepting fiduciary responsibility. And to me, fiduciary responsibility is just the beginning. We all need to be rather beyond that. If we weren’t even willing to do that, it’s the culture of the industry, the culture of the countries.
If you’re looking at bottom line that way, and it was pretty easy to measure that because it was investment-based. People walked in to a financial professional’s office usually through the financial door. They had money, they had questions, they had situations that they wanted to prepare for.
But if you get to a higher balcony, and you look at our profession, what we were really doing is we were in the business of life transitions and we didn’t even know it. We were preparing people for these life events. People hired you for retirement, people hired you for that accumulation, people hired you to transfer their assets in a way that made sense for their family, to manage risk, to manage cash flow in retirement, but they were preparing … People wanted to be prepared for these big events.
We were in the business of preparing for managing and adapting to life events, but we weren’t standing on that balcony then, so we didn’t see it that way. We saw it as a numbers thing. We got really good at it, and we are good at it, and the technology that’s coming out is fantastic for supporting that, but that other part of the equation I would argue as equally important and equally complex. The neuropsychologists will tell you where all decisions are made is on the personal side, and we’ve just not been ready for that.
Steve Wershing:
Susan, how do you help advisors help their clients deal with those kinds of transitions?
Susan Bradley:
Now we have that certification program because we’ve come to think that this is so important, it needed to do something we resisted for our first 12 or 13 years. We didn’t want to have another certification, certainly not a Sudden Money certified whatever, it sounded like asset grab, to tell you the truth. But as we studied and did more research etc., we realized that we needed very specific skillsets. We needed protocols, and we needed a continuous training track that was practical for the average financial planner. Anywhere from the lower income families to the highest network families, in the private banking to the one off financial planning office and all the brokerage.
These problems that were challenges, it’s not really a problem. Life events are really usually good things, and people are not always hair on fire, freaking out, and imploding their lives. Thank goodness. But it does happen and you want to keep them from the edge of the abyss. There’s process you can do to help clients even before … As soon as an event is identified, even if it’s retirement five years out. They’ve already started their transition.
Steve Wershing:
What are some of those building blocks of skills that they need to be able help clients through these?
Susan Bradley:
Thanks for asking. I was going off in my tangent, as you know I can. The first thing that we teach, the first tool, there are nine tools in our 12 month program. It’s broken into six two-month modules. The first tool that we have is a bit abstract, but it’s a way of having conversations with the client about what matters. It’s called Purpose and Method Outcome, where we converse with the client and help them establish what is their emotional why behind whatever it is. Their engagement with you to their divorce or their … Any major issue, before we go into the how we’re going to this, we want to know the why.
It’s a very strong thing to do because it helps client and advisor go to the truth place where the going gets tough, and it usually does get a little confusing, at least. The next tool that we work with in the beginning is a communication preference tool, where we don’t tell someone who they are in terms of communication. We let them tell us. People need a way to really think about it and identify and articulate what would be best for them in meetings.
How are they going to be comfortable and productive before a meeting, at a meeting, after a meeting? How do they like to see information? Some people like the whole Magellan, they got to read it all. Other people just want to see two bullet points and tell me what to do. If you don’t know the difference in all the in-between, you spend time that doesn’t need to be spent and maybe even keep people from their decision making.
Also, how people make decisions. Some people need to process for two weeks after a meeting, some people want quiet time in a meeting. Once you understand how they are best at meetings, decisions, and assessing information, it is so easy from a practice management point of view to set it up so that each client is really at their best, and it doesn’t mess with the efficiency of practice management, so-
Steve Wershing:
There’s-
Susan Bradley:
What we do … Yeah. Go ahead.
Steve Wershing:
Yeah, I was going to say just how to highlight how that works. When you and I spoke at one point before you had a really good example of helping people find their comfortable way of doing that. You told me the story of one advisor who was asking one particular client about that, and they said, “I just need 10 or 15 minutes of quiet time to do that.” Can you tell us a little bit about how the advisor dealt with that?
Susan Bradley:
Yeah, and that was someone who had worked with that advisor for many years. He was a business owner. He came in twice a year, he did these two-hour get it all done kind of meetings, and then he would leave with all the decisions to make and not make another decision until the next meeting. He was busy. He’d walked out the door and think, “Better get gas before I go to this board meeting. Oh, my kids need this.” And he’s forgotten it.
When they did this … We don’t do it with just new clients in transition. We do with all clients. He said, “You know, I don’t make my decisions very well and I know that that kind of bugs you a bit.” That was a joke. He said, “But if you could just leave me alone for 10, 15 minutes, I could probably make most of the decisions while I’m still here.”
The advisor agreed. When they got to the end of the meeting, the advisor got up, went for some coffee, returned a phone call, whatever, came back in and the client typically made all the decisions. Sometimes if there was a big, big decision, it would take a while afterwards, but most of the, “Sign it, get it done”, was happening right then and there. It’s pretty efficient.
Julie Littlechild:
Interesting.
Susan Bradley:
Some clients can’t take a long meeting, particularly in transition, and if you can figure that out with them, when you do this exercise, you know that they need to keep meetings under 30 minutes. You’re going to say the most important thing first and you’re going to have one topic at a time and you’ll probably have four or five meetings, but they’ll be short and they’ll be effective, and the client builds confidence by doing it that way. If you overwhelm them, then they think they’re a mess and this thing is going to go on forever. They have a lot of fear and concern about themselves, as well as the whole process.
And these things are not hard to do, it’s just you need a process to follow. We have the people in training do six of these with clients, write up their experience, and then we discuss them in study groups and in larger group experience calls, so advisors can hear each other.
One advisor in India yesterday said, “I didn’t like doing this. I didn’t feel comfortable, it wasn’t natural, I read the textbook, I did everything, I wrote down all the questions.” So we don’t have people do it mechanically, but she was doing it at that way. She went by the book, and she said, “I was literally sweating. I did it.” And you got to give her credit, and she said, “But my clients loved it, and they talked for 40 minutes, usually, it’s about five to 10, and I learned things about these people that I had never, ever, known before.” That was her report on her first time.
Steve Wershing:
And then sometimes it’s just letting the client talk about what they’re going through before you actually get to the financial agenda, right?
Susan Bradley:
Absolutely. We do that in our decision free zone. We ask people just to let it all out. What are they thinking about? What’s going on? Who’s supporting them? What do they worry about? What are they hoping for? And as we’re listening … We’re really listening. At the end, we can say, “Okay. This is what I’m hearing.” You capture what you heard in a single word or just a few words, and we scatter it across a page, so there’s a visual that confirms to somebody that there’s an awful lot going on. You can’t possibly act on all of this. We want them to have an emotional and cognitive reaction that it’s time now to organize all this stuff. From there-
Steve Wershing:
And then-
Susan Bradley:
Yeah.
Steve Wershing:
Yeah, when Julie and I did our study last year, one of the things that we found was that advisors who get more referrals enable the client to participate in the experience and sort of tailor it to their own needs, sometimes, and this sounds like a more sophisticated way than we’re used to thinking about that.
We’re used to thinking about, “Here’s the agenda, we’re going to power our way through it.” But what you’re talking about is letting the client do some of that design, so that they’re in a position to be able to make those decisions. To me, it sounds maybe a little bit more radical than they might at first come across. Is that what you’re finding with the advisors you’re taking through the program?
Susan Bradley:
I don’t think I’d use radical, I might use profound, if you don’t mind.
Steve Wershing:
Sure, it’s a better word.
Susan Bradley:
There’s a profound result that comes from it and the term that we use, Steve, for all of our tools is co-creation. We’re not doing anything to a client and we are not telling them. On the personal side, we see the client as the expert. In the technical side, the advisor is the expert.
The client is the expert, but needs guidance on the personal side, particularly during transition. We think of the Certified Financial Transitionist as their thinking partner, as their guide, as someone who has been through this before, but never with that one person. You’ll pay attention to their individuality.
People feel really respected when they go through the communication process. No one has ever asked them and then we show advisors how to put that into their CRM, and then follow it and how to follow up. That in itself makes an immediate, huge difference.
Julie Littlechild:
In some of the engagement research we did, we saw this really tight correlation between the quality of a review and engagement and far more so, as you can imagine, between the frequency of reviews and engagement. I think what you’re … Although I’m grossly oversimplifying it, you’re co-creating a far more meaningful conversation. From a data perspective, I can see how that lines up with deeper engagement, with connection, and ultimately with referrals as well.
But I just want to make sure I’m capturing, because I know you said nine tools, six modules. We talked a bit about purpose, we talked about communication preferences … That might not be the correct term, but what you’ve been talking about is that about that second step or tool? Can you maybe make sure we list all of those?
Susan Bradley:
Sure. The two that I mentioned and then the decision-free zone, those are three of them. Another one is working on visual one-pagers, not the kind of graphs and charts that come off the software. It’s not particularly rudimentary, it’s somewhere in between, and we use the science of data visualization to guide us with that. If we get it right, we increase recall by 650%, is what their research says.
That is an incredible skillset for people that are in overwhelmed or fogged, or feeling great pressure. It’s really a wonderful thing. We have that, we manage exceptions, we have a process to manage personal as well as the expectations of other people. We have a tool to help people who are at their very early stage, identify and be confident that they’re okay not to make big financial decisions for the first many months.
We’re just looking at their sources of income and liquid assets they could test out or start to take, whether they’re taxable, reliable, repeatable, like that. It’s a way to lower the stress level and the urgency of doing things at the very beginning.
Another is something we call What Has Changed, and it’s touching on 12 aspects of life, all the way from income to self-care and family, and that sort of thing. We ask two or three questions in each topic, and just ask the client to indicate if they’re confident or if they’re uncertain or fearful.
We get a nice overview, a 30,000 foot view of this broad landscape. It’s a self-assessment, something they can do at the beginning and then a year later, a month later, to see how they’re doing. You will find that they have some really good areas that they are comfortable in, so you want to acknowledge that, but you also want to know where they are fearful or uncertain, so it gives you and the client directions of focus.
There’s another one on Touchstone, understanding what the higher feeling that people are looking for in their life. I know that sounds squishy and nanu nanu to many people, but it’s a-
Julie Littlechild:
Excellent reference.
Susan Bradley:
And you know what, it is, but it’s also profoundly important when you get it right. It takes some training, particularly if you’re not inclined in that direction, but anybody can do this.
And then the last thing that I think I didn’t mention is, What If, which is a longer process. Some of these are very short, they’re done in a 10 minute conversation. Others take more time, and What If helps people say, “What if I could write that next chapter of my life and everything I wrote down actually came true? What would I write?”
That’s a pretty big thing, and most people go, “Yeah. Sure.” It’s just too big. We have a process where we start with a big wish list, and then we narrow that down to, “If you could do anything, not everything.” So we get a couple of really strong goals.
We help them map out a new narrative. It really lends itself to scenario planning. This is great for the growth mindset or mindset reset work that we do is running those narratives, so people can be thinking about how they want to build their next, and then we test out the, “What if the bad things happen?” Some people are prevention-focused, more than expansion-focused. Moira Somers is our neuropsychologist, she has a PhD in procrastination, very useful.
Steve Wershing:
I think I can test her out on that degree.
Susan Bradley:
Yeah. She’s Canadian, and lovely, and she helps us understand readiness and depletion and how people are motivated to act or not act. That’s built in to our work. We’re very science based, but we don’t want to be scientific. We want to be human.
Julie Littlechild:
What I find so fascinating is we can talk about these issues, we might read an article or a book, but you’ve said, “No. We need something new. It’s a Certified Financial Transitionist.” Can you give us a little perspective on what’s involved? You’ve talked about obviously some of the tools you use, but what’s involved in actually getting that and keeping it?
Susan Bradley:
Yeah. It’s mostly a virtual program, and it is monthly, and we have a textbook, we have on-demands, we do CE for people, so we have quizzes after the on-demands, we have experience calls and study group calls. It’s experiential, meaning you’re working with a client and you’re writing it up and discussing with your peers and with the trainers.
At the end of the 12 month, there’s an eight hour exam, and we are very proud of our exam. We have people who … That’s what they do. They write exams. Once you do that and you have all the assignments, the experience assignments in, then if you’re a CFP, CFA, PFS, CMA, you can hold the CeFT, it’s what we call it, designation. There is a continuing education requirement. Mostly, everything we do is approved by CFP board and usually the others, as well, so it’s a dual purpose thing.
For 70% of the people who go through it, they go on to continuous learning tracks. We have two years of advanced study and the mastery study, so we have a 90% renewal rate, which helps us understand we’re doing something right, but every year we have to earn those renewals. We have to be a continuous learning community.
Steve Wershing:
Susan, we’ve talked a lot about the value of clients about this and why it’s important to look at it from this perspective. The podcast is all about getting referral, so we’d also like to ask you a little bit about what kind of impact does this kind of skillset have on an advisor’s business and how he develops it?
Susan Bradley:
It’s really interesting, Steve. In the beginning days people thought about advertising that they did this work, like in traditional advertising. It turns out the referrals is really the strongest way to build your business. If you’re giving clients a transformational experience over and over again as they meet with you, which is what you’re designed to do, they will naturally refer. Referrals go way up, retention obviously stays very high. But also, referrals from centers of influence, because usually there’s nobody else that has these credentials that can really talk about this.
Everybody can talk about it in general, but CeFTs are really deeply trained, so they can use terms like language impairment and explain where that comes from, and a divorce attorney gets it right away that this person is the one that my clients need to go to. You can do seminars, education seminars, for COIs, and you can do programs for your clients, but sometimes just keeping the materials around so people see it and say, “What is this?” Everybody thinks it’s a really cool idea that there’s a technical specialist who also understands life transitions. It’s a thing.
Julie Littlechild:
I think you also get to the issues that people do talk about, right? I mean, there are many advanced designations on the technical side, but I know I don’t go out to dinner and talk about those things. They wouldn’t come up, but, maybe that’s just me. But the things that I think these kinds of conversations are exactly the kinds of conversations that friends are having with friends or families are having, and so would lead even more naturally to that referral. My view.
Susan Bradley:
Yeah. If you think about it, you don’t necessarily want to refer your neighbors or your family members to someone because they got you a good investment return. There’s a lot of risk in that. But to say that this advisor is really trained in life events, you should see what they did for this widow or this divorced person, how much they helped. If you’re the specialist in life events, that is the driver.
They say that 70% of people who hire advisors do so because of life events. Many people think that that’s actually low, I don’t know, but it is what’s happening in our world. Just look at the baby bloomers. Once you hit 50, your life speeds up and these events happen more frequently and tend to overlap. It is what’s happening in our country and in our world. When I work in all the other countries, it’s the same thing. This is what drives the business.
Steve Wershing:
Yeah. And just to build on what Julie was saying, it’s hard for me to imagine clients getting together with friends afterwards and saying, “I talked with my advisor and this rotational cyclical asset allocation strategy is just fascinating.” But I know that clients talk with their friends about, “Boy, I met with her and she really understood me, she really helped me get my story out.” Talking about the things that are going to attract people as referrals.
Susan Bradley:
Yeah.
Steve Wershing:
Yeah.
Julie Littlechild:
There’s going to be a lot of advisors, I think, who are interested in learning more about the formal training that’s involved and we’ll make sure we include links to all of this as well, but I’d love to ask you just as we’re getting close to wrapping up, that, assume someone is looking at that longer term, but it’s not going to happen tomorrow, are there some shorter term things that you think advisors can be doing to make progress in the areas that we’ve talked about?
Susan Bradley:
Yeah. Actually, our new website that should be out in two to three weeks now, we’ve been saying that for months by the way, but now-
Julie Littlechild:
But now we mean it.
Susan Bradley:
I would say it comes out in the month of May. We are intentionally building CE-based webinars and things like that for advisors who are not in our program. We have articles and we have blog posts on our website right now that I hope will be very useful, but we intend to continue with our faculty and our trainers to offer education program.
And we do have workshops, like there’s one that will come out this year with Carol Lee Roberts who is the head of the certified divorce folks, and we’re going to team up and do a one day, half on the technical side of divorce planning and then me on the personal side. Things like that will be coming up and they’ll be announced on our website. And we can come to areas … I do a lot of conferences, I think I have 12 more to go this year. I like to be at those things, and give information and education, not to go sell.
Julie Littlechild:
And let’s not forget, if someone wants a jacket made in Mumbai, you are the person to direct them. Look, let me just ask you real quickly, where can people find you if they’re looking for all of that, those wonderful resources that you just pointed out?
Susan Bradley:
Easy. It’s SuddenMoney.com.
Julie Littlechild:
Awesome.
Susan Bradley:
From there, you can find the email address info@SuddenMoney, our phone number. We’re happy to hang out and talk with anybody that has an interest, or has a client situation. That does happen. If you need a little bit of help, even if you’re not part of the community, happy if I have the time to spend some time with you.
Julie Littlechild:
That’s wonderful. Generous offer. Susan, thank you so much. It’s so deep, a lot of what we’re talking about. I feel like we could go on for hours, but it’s been great to get your perspective and really appreciate you being here today.
Susan Bradley:
Thank you. It’s really a pleasure to be with both of you. I love your work and I love your podcast, so I’ll be listening. Not just for me, but for all the other good people.
Steve Wershing:
Thanks, Susan. Thank you for coming.
Julie Littlechild:
Thank you.
Susan Bradley:
Pleasure.
Steve Wershing:
Hey folks, Steve again. Thanks for joining us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes. It really helps. You can get all the links, show notes and other tidbits from these episodes at BecomingReferable.com. You can also get our free report, Three Referral Myths That Limit Your Growth, and connect with our blogs and other resources. Until next time, so long.