Participants:
Steve Wershing
Julie Littlechild
Leo Pusateri
Julie Littlechild:
Welcome to another episode of Becoming Referable, the podcast that helps you be the kind of advisor people can’t stop talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild and on this week’s show, Steve and I are speaking with Leo Pusateri.
Leo is the President and CEO of Pusateri Consulting and Training and Steve and I have both known Leo for many years. He and his team, as you probably know, have contributed an enormous amount of thinking to this industry, on the topic of how you define and how you price your value. But this conversation is a little different. We talk to Leo about his latest work which is squarely focused on you as an advisor and how you can design the next phase of your business, and your life, to reflect your most significant goals. I really believe that this is a critical conversation for this industry and one that we don’t have often enough.
Leo starts with the idea that your next big project is you and then walks you through the seven areas that he believes we all need to examine in order to live lives of significance. And with that, let’s turn to the conversation with Leo.
Well Leo, welcome to the Becoming Referable podcast.
Steve Wershing:
Welcome Leo.
Leo Pusateri:
Thank you Julie. Thank you Steve. Great to talk to you both again.
Julie Littlechild:
Oh and you. And I was, Leo, I’ve known you for too many years to mention and for so many years I’ve seen the impact that your work has had around the whole concept of defining and pricing your value and I know so many people know you for that work. We could talk for hours about that. But when you and I caught up recently, you told me about the new work that you were doing and I was getting, I wanted to sign up for this. I just got to tell you that, when we were talking. But you were so passionate about it so I thought this would be a really great place to focus.
And look, I’m going to start at a really high level. One of the things that you said and I’ve seen this in your material is this statement, your next big project is you. Let me just use that as a place to leap off. Can you tell me what that means? Why it’s so important.
Leo Pusateri:
Well what it means is that after years of serving clients, there’s a point where you need to start thinking of you. It’s plain and simple like that. Not that all the folks in our community haven’t thought about this before. Some people have a little bit of a different perspective. They’ve learned how to call a timeout and to look in the mirror a little bit differently folks. But there’s a point in the next five to 25 years where all of sudden thinking about your own life, you’ve been helping clients for all these years, there’s some point now of slowing down, pressing pause, pressing stop, where you need to look at that.
I’m telling you Julie and Steve, it might be driven by an advisor’s thoughts about their own retirement, their own succession, they’re going through business valuation, they’re thinking about their career in different ways. It could be driven by health. It could be driven by relationships in their life. It could be driven by family issues. It could be driven by personal issues where they’re just saying, there’s almost like a flame within them that they know should be just a little bit brighter and they can feel it. They maybe can’t get their hands around it.
I believe it’s the same thing, you ask why is it so important? It’s important because if you can think of all the advisors that the three of us are constantly talking to, constantly helping them with getting closer to their clients and understanding their value and perceptions of their value and things like this and what they can do to enhance the experiences and things. We always talk about peace of mind, and advisors have been helping clients achieve this for years and it’s just about time they think about their own peace of mind beyond the businesses that they’ve built to do this.
They’ve got the same issues that their clients have. This is like the wake up call. When I talk to these folks you realize, I’m going to through the same stuff that I’ve been here talking to my clients about. Their retirement, things like this, it’s about time I just step back, look in the mirror and start to look at this. I’m holding a seat for you there too.
Steve Wershing:
Now Leo is this a case of the cobbler’s kids not having shoes? Or are you talking about bigger things than that?
Leo Pusateri:
Well the bigger questions are advisors, Steve, really starting to think about their own future, the future of their businesses, things like this. It’s exactly what I’m saying is that the same questions that they’re asking their clients, their business owners, whatever type of client segmentation that they’re working within, they’ve got at some point look in their own mirror and then start to envision their own futures in the way that they’re starting the ask the clients questions about their retirement, their vision. They do all this cashflow analysis and they start to discuss bucket list scenarios and things like this. They’re getting clients to open up to them so they can be a better wealth partner in the achievement of their long-term mandates and things that are close to them and their family. It’s just about time they start practicing what they preach.
I’ll tell you a very quick story here. I’m doing a program for an advisory group in the Midwest and I ask everybody, I said, “I’m just curious,” I said, “how many of you folks here believe that your client should have a financial plan or wealth plan? Call it what you want.” Everybody’s hand goes up. I said, “Listen, do me a favor, keep your hands up.” And I said, “Let me know, I’m just curious, if I walk back to your house, your business office, wherever, could you open up a desk drawer and pull out that same financial or wealth plan for yourself that you’re driving your clients towards completing for themselves to do this with your assistance?” And a lot of hands started to come down to do this.
So that that whole issue there Steve of practicing what you preach, I see it all the time and we start to get into some different issues when they start thinking about their life. They’ve got to start just looking at themselves in a different way, the way they’ve been challenging clients to open up to them about their futures. They’ve got to start looking at their own in some ways they haven’t thought about before. That’s what I’m talking about here.
Julie Littlechild:
What do you think the risk is of not doing this? Of not hitting pause at some point and asking ourselves those bigger questions.
Leo Pusateri:
Well life goes on. It’s been described by a recent buddy of mine, one of my dearest friends who retired from Price Waterhouse Coopers and we were talking about, I said, “Let’s just step back and when did these issues hit you?” Again, it’s not just an advisor, it’s significant clients like this guy who retired at 55. The risk Julie, can be multiple in different areas.
Can you imagine someone describing in their life they were on this selfish rocket ship that just kept going and going and going? And this rocket ship had no end. They described to me, it was like being on this life carousel, trying to get on a different horse, couldn’t stop it. Or they’re in a Le Mans 24-hour race or Daytona 500 and after periodic check to change a tire or to change your oil or something like this, you get right back on the track and it’s like this race never ends for a lot of people. It’s hitting the advisors as well. Unless you’ve got some self- awareness, it can manifest into some other areas.
I’m talking to another individual in your country right now. Because of what’s happened to him, the risk, they’re all of a sudden, it’s hitting him in a different way from a family perspective. Can you imagine somebody telling you that they felt like they’ve had their head in the sand, it sort of feels like, or the earth is shaking below their feet? These are the types of risk that the clients of advisors are saying this to the advisors but nobody’s asking the advisors per se about these same sentiments and emotions and things that they’re experiencing and feeling in their own life and that’s really what I got my hands around right now.
Steve Wershing:
Leo, once they begin addressing some of these things for themselves, what kind of an effect does that have on how they do this kind of work for their clients?
Leo Pusateri:
You would think by the personal introspection, Steve, that all of a sudden that there’s an old adage in the sales world that I’ve used in my training, it says, “The best way to learn how to sell is to first understand what it’s like to buy.” For many, I tell people, “You’ve got to in your own way, the way you’re trying to unzip the zipper, the imaginary zipper on a client’s chest, to reach in and touch their heart, touch their soul, figure out what’s really important to them. Their challenges, concerns, circumstances, frustrations, needs, opportunities, problems, all these things that are going on in people’s lives right now.” I say, “Hey timeout. You better look at these for yourself first right now. What are these issues impacting your life as we’re going forward right now?”
Because the more you’re able to align to your own emotions, this is really one of the three diseases I talk about or illnesses. I talk about as you two know me for many years about eradicating the sensation of winging it. We talk about the verbal quicksand. I talk about the second disease that people say, “I didn’t even know you did that. I didn’t know your team did that or your company did that. Why don’t you ever talk to me about that before?”
The third one is the inability to squeeze someone’s heart. I’m talking about really getting your hands around it. Keeping that candy, those product solutions, strategies in your back pocket and so what I’m telling the advisors is through this introspection, is that slow down, press pause, get a handle on your own emotions. The benefit of this, Julie and Steve, would be the more you can attend to your own emotions, you’ll be better equipped to be more emotionally sensitive to others.
I don’t know about the two of you but that old adage hit me back in the 80s, business is first a meeting of the hearts and then it becomes a meeting of the minds. To this day I still believe that we do business with people we like, people that we trust, people that we value. It usually starts emotionally and leads to logical connections. If you can get a handle on your own emotions, it’s naturally going to help up to be more sensitive to talk to clients. You’re going to be able to acknowledge differently. You’re going to be able to stay with them on those emotions. It’s just going to develop into different types of relationships.
Julie Littlechild:
You mentioned to me Leo that there were seven areas. This is will be a bit of big question but seven distinct areas that you think we really need to examine to really live a life of significance, to live the kind of lives that we want to live and just picking up on Steve’s point, my assumption is these are also the seven areas that our clients, that we as humans need to evaluate. Can you just, so we can get a little specific on this, can you just walk me through those seven areas?
Leo Pusateri:
Absolutely. The first one, Julie, is what I call living a life of significance. That’s all about making a meaningful difference and it really starts with you. It really takes off with personal introspection. Where are you now? Where have you been? Where do you want to go? How can I make a difference to myself so that I can impact others as well? You can see right out of the gate with these seven areas of how reaching in within ourselves and looking, have we really made a significant difference to other folks? Got to look at ourselves first.
The second area is living a life of no regrets. I talk about this, this is all about inner pride and that people many times, need to remove barriers in their life. I remember when my dad passed away the year I started my business in 1992, 27 years ago based on this recording today. I remember leaving the cemetery and hugging my brother at the time and I said, “You know what? I don’t have one regret.” Not one with my dad. He was a man of unbelievable, I didn’t come from money. Guy with seventh grade education, came over from Sicily in 1922. Taught me values. I said, “Not one regret.” Lived a life in terms of treating people with respect and all the core values that we talk about in our practices today. I think a lot of times people are timing, calling that timeout for themselves, looking at regrets from the perspective of, is there anything in your life backpack right now that’s holding you down personally, professionally? Anything that you can do to throw that rock out right now?
The concept of pride and regrets also is challenging people to look forward in terms of the things that they want to be able to do with families, friends for themselves, so there’s no regrets in that area as well. It’s almost like having your own bucket list and watching the movie with Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman or something.
The third area is what I call abundance. Abundance is about intentional stewardship that attends to three different areas when we think of our time, we think of our talents, we think of our treasure. And what we could be doing to impact the lives of others. It’s more about sharing through some different type of thinking of what you could be doing, what you have to truly make a difference.
And then this goes into the fourth area that I’ve come up is really about gratitude. Wouldn’t it be nice to live Thanksgiving every day of our life? To me this about authentic appreciation. When I did a beta test on this, Julie and Steve, I created a gratitude wall. Imagine 20 or so people, they’re getting up with Post-it notes through this exercise, of putting up things in their life that they were grateful for. It was interesting to see all walks of life, both advisors from our profession as well as from outside, where like I mentioned, my friend from Price Waterhouse was there, an HR executive from Corning Glass, a former Xerox executive, I mixed it from an eclectic perspective because I wanted to see what people were sharing. Was it the same? Was there similar sentiments about things?
And it was interesting to watch people walk around the room and say, “My gosh, look at this thing that this person’s grateful for here. I would have never thought of this, to do this.” Some real interesting things take off there.
The fifth area is about perspective. What I talk about here is increasing your sensitivity. What you have, what other people don’t have. It’s like a wake-up call. It’s like somebody throwing some water in your face or literally getting a two by four hit at some point to say, “Wait a minute.” To timeout. That was just me clapping my hand there just with some emphasis literally when I’m teaching to say, “You just got to slow down.”
I went to a women’s prison as one my assignments, believe it or not. Working with some top institutional folks in our business, years ago. Imagine sitting there, I got three daughters that I fortunately have walked down the aisle and I’ve won some lottos with son-in-laws and stuff like that and families. But imagine sitting there with someone who’s had three kids at 19, who was on drugs and it was in prison, to increase what we have and what others don’t have. I could take that off into another area.
That the sixth area is about becoming your best, Julie, and that I talk about having a committed focus, best you. How can you be best dad, best mom, best sister, best brother, best community member, best friend, if we’re not looking inwardly at ourselves first to do this. And we do some interesting thing about, we call this like a swarm of bees, these behaviors that are driving us towards being our best. Being a little bit more reflective, introspective about what we can do to take ourselves on a path of becoming our best in all that we do and how that manifests in our life with relationships and things.
And the last area is about living your legacy. I talk about having a genuine impact on others. This could potentially be transformative. It’s not just putting your name on a building at a university or in a hospital wing or something like this. It could be other more subtle things in terms of how you impact individuals or families or communities or causes or things like this. I wanted people to start thinking about, you’re trying to talk to people about their legacies, how about your own? What are you doing to have an impact on the lives of others to do this?
All seven of these come together in a pretty cool concept I’ve called the Sabbatical Experience because think about yourselves, have you ever had a chance to take a sabbatical? Few have. I said, “Most people, unless you’re in academia or something like that, we never had a chance to call a life timeout.” To step back and to look at ourselves differently. You can imagine getting more sensitive to significance and regrets and abundance and gratitude with respect to becoming your best, living your legacy, how this starts to flow into discussions with clients as well about their life. You starting taking clients not just about your investments and okay, you got enough money to live on until age 83 or here’s your social security, here’s what’s going to happen here. Well what do you really want to do? Tell me what’s on your list. How your family’s going to integrate and stuff like this. When you start adding these principles in, emotional connectivity, at least from what I’m seeing so far, goes to a whole other level. Because you’ve experienced yourself and you’re able to bring this into client relationships as well.
Julie Littlechild:
You’ve just mentioned this Sabbatical Experience. It’s interesting because these concepts are big concepts and they’re important but we often need a little structure to help us. Just like a client needs an advisor to guide them, so do we and so do advisors. Can you tell us a little bit about this experience? It sounds like a very kind of immersive program that you created.
Leo Pusateri:
Yeah, good word Julie it is immersive. It’s comprehensive. There’s a lot of ways to describe it. Think about some of the things that you Julie and Steve, have participated in or some of your coaching to advisors where it’s become transformative. It’s changed them. It’s not just, he was a great a speaker or Steve leading great client events and things like this on behalf of his clients and things like this. It’s just different in terms of in order to change behaviors, you can’t just pump somebody up up in the mountains in Arizona where I’m going to be really hosting this. Be it my home office, let’s say. Because I wanted people to experience unique introspection.
We can do it just about any place where the environment is right. Just I don’t think this is a Holiday Inn airport type of scenario. I want people to look at the beauty of nature and the mountains or the ocean or the whatever it might be that gets people to think about life and things like this. Imaging coming together folks, for something for coming in on a Tuesday afternoon, you’re meeting people for a couple hours, first dinner, all day Wednesday, all day Thursday, half a day Friday and then the real coaching takes off.
But what we’ve built is a community, a tribe, very quickly where people are connecting. Small groups, scarcity oriented. This isn’t a big 1,000 advisor conference to go to. 20, 25 people there. Really getting to know each other. Really getting to open up to each other. Learning to become part of the coaching faculty themselves. And that’s the beauty of the design where people coming and you need to be, it’s almost like going to Harvard or trying to qualify for an advanced Masters or doctoral degree. I wanted people to really be interviewed to make sure they’re the right fit for this as well. That they could come and know that expectations are to receive feedback, to give feedback. To be there as a coach to others and things like this. That’s what can take the experience deeper.
If you think of leaving a scenario where people literally want to come back to and then thinking, all right, just the coaching is really just beginning now. Month to month customized coaching, follow up webinars. The typical types of things you and I, the three of us on this line today, know that exist today but doing this in a way of bringing people together around these life principles. Because normally, what’s the typical coaching program they’re going to? How do I structure my team? What are the roles and responsibilities? Do I have my value proposition? How do I develop a center of influence strategy? Do I bring somebody in like Steve to lead my client event here to get feedback on how we’re doing and things like this?
But in terms of ripping them apart, and saying, “Wait, slow down a little bit. This is about you right now. It’s not about even the members in your team right now. It’s not about your wife or your husband or whoever else.” This is about you Julie, it’s about you Steve, in order for us to get deeper for you to think about you for the next five to 25 years of your life. If we can put you with like-minded individuals, 18 to 20 other Julie and Steves who are going through introspection, the three of us on the line have all built up our own success in our own ways, we got our own clients and things like this, but at some point, your next big project Julie, your next big project Steve is you. And that’s what I’m telling these advisors and I believe it’s going to make them better advisors. The more they work on themselves, it’s going to help them to work on those clients on similar issues for them as well.
Julie Littlechild:
Leo, as I’m listening to you talk about this, it’s a big new focus for you but it feels like a natural progression at the same time, is there a backstory on this personally as to what led you in this direction?
Leo Pusateri:
Absolutely Julie. First and foremost is I listened to my clients. That’s number one. They started telling me, we’re going through the unique introspection of our value ladder concept that you’re both familiar with. That’s answering simple questions but deceptively difficult to answer. Who are you? What do you do? Why do you do what you do? How do you do what you do? Who have you done it for? What makes you different? Why should I do business with you?
We’re going through this introspection, who are you? What do you do? Why? Advisors would pull me aside and say, “You know what Leo? This program is way beyond helping me to distinguish myself, my team, my organization, to differentiate myself in a crowded, commoditized marketplace. You’re really making me think about my life. You’re making me think about, I want to talk to my kids about this and things.” My flame was lit there when clients pulled me aside and said, “You’re making me think more beyond my business but about my life.”
Second, is that I started living these issues more and more myself to do this. When you go through starting your business and three months later your dad passes, and then over the years you lose your mom, you lose your in-laws, you lose your only brother, you get hit with cancer yourself. You spend 45 days in radiation, looking at a red light coming down hitting you and things like this, you really start to think, you have an emergency landing at 9/11 but five years ago. When the plane is coming down, is descending and you got an oxygen mask on for the first time, it’s a combination of all these life events that I was living myself.
I’ll tell you something Julie and Steve, I don’t know if you’ve ever been on a flight with an oxygen mask and people holding hands and kids crying because we just left Orlando, heading back to beautiful Buffalo, when you’re looking out the window with an iPad on, watching Al Pacino’s Scarface movie and with a phone wondering if you should call your wife or your kids, and you start thinking about geez, this isn’t the way this is supposed to go. This isn’t the way I plotted this baby.
Long story short, I said at that point and that was five years ago, I said, “This baby comes down safely,” obviously it did when we diverted to Savannah, Georgia and we got down. We lost air compression at 27,000 feet. Never happened to me before. But that moment, you take the combination of my clients giving me feedback, my clients and my own events in my life of the losses and dealing with health and all of sudden I’m on a plane coming down and I’m thinking, wait a minute, what did I really want to do that I never did?
This is something that had been brewing about all these issues. Have I led a life of significance? Which I believe I have but I know I could do better. Have I left a life with no regrets? As I climbed that whole ladder of these seven areas, that was the backdrop. That’s how it really took off and became a really phenomenal world class coaching experience that we’re ready to get up and running here.
Steve Wershing:
Is this something that you’re currently doing with advisors or are you just rolling this out now?
Leo Pusateri:
It’s being rolled out officially. The first core program is in Scottsdale, Arizona up in the mountains beginning this November.
Steve Wershing:
Okay.
Leo Pusateri:
We beta tested it Steve two years ago with great acclaim. We went to work on it big time after that and here we are. We’ve got 12 people give or take, on my board of advisors from all walks of life. Advisors and clients and friends and family and things as you can imagine. We’ve just gone to work and we’re ready to fly.
Steve Wershing:
Okay. With that beta group, did you find that the advisors in that group, those conversations sort of carried over into the conversations that they’re having with clients? Do you see that once advisors start grappling with this that it affects what kinds of questions they ask their clients?
Leo Pusateri:
Totally. Totally. Remember earlier we were discussing, I mentioned about unzipping the zipper on client’s chest or you better start looking at your own. It’s like becoming a, I’m a big Seinfeld fan, it’s like becoming Kramer like. When you hear these emotions for instance, challenges, circumstances, concerns. I was talking about needs, opportunities, wants, problems, all those things. You remember how Kramer comes out with Jerry and he gets very apoplectic and it’s like a doorbell going off and I said, “You’ve got to answer that doorbell as you’ve been doing for clients. When you talk to them, talk to me as a business owner.” Hey Leo what’s one of the challenges that you’re seeing in your business? What’s the vision for Pusateri Consulting? Steve, what’s the vision for your business? Julie for your business? Tell me, what are some of those issues impacting your success? What’s it look like to you? And what’s your greatest opportunity?
When you take these questions and start asking yourself and then you start adding on deeper, more emotionally connective questions around these things. One of my clients out west, it’s a big family office, arguably preeminent group on the west coast, $13 billion, 405 or so clients, and one of beliefs we had orchestrated for them, it gets into talking about that it begins with the money but it ends with the family. When you think about things like this and their ride when you’re dealing with the evolution from a high net worth client or ultra high net worth client and a lot of the issues that come into play there and things.
A lot of clients I believe, and advisors, are going to become better advisors because of these conversations with clients. When they start looking in the mirror, calling a timeout, press the pause button, press stop, doing it for themselves, I believe they’re going to be not only taking care of themselves but they’re going to be better advisors in the process.
Julie Littlechild:
Can you see a connection, if we think about when you focus on yourself, it makes you a better advisor for your clients. Can you see the connection between examining your own life and business, helping your clients and then becoming referable? Which is obviously what we focused on on the podcast.
Leo Pusateri:
Yeah, totally. We talked earlier Julie, that people do business with people they like, trust and value. If you look up trust in my beautiful business dictionary here in beautiful Buffalo here, it says, “Total confidence,” first two words, “total confidence that others have in three things that you possess. It’s your integrity, it’s your character and it’s your abilities.”
Think of how all this stuff comes into play. People looking at themselves as advisors wondering, am I as close to my clients as I can? Looking at some of these factors, you do a phenomenal job of giving them great feedback from all your work around client experience and things like this. I’ve taken it to a very complimentary level of helping a lot of these advisors with qualitative discussions. Teaching them how to call timeouts which compliments Steve’s great work on advisory boards and things like this.
It’s interesting when you, in my programs now today, my longer multiple month coaching programs, we actually call a timeout in the program and I have advisors call one or two of their clients in the class. As part of a book project, it’s almost done called, Effectually Timeout. Original title, Ask These Question and Then Shut Up. But my wife said, “You can’t use the word shut up in a book.” I said, “Why not?” We were laughing about it, she said, “We don’t use it in the house, why would you use it on a book?” Long story, here we are, timeout, what you need to do to keep and grow your most valued clients.
Imagine being on the phone or teaching them how to do this face to face which compliments both of what the two of you do at an expert level? Why did you hire us? And how would you describe what we do for you? Julie, we did this with a class in Toronto. Advisor calls his client from not too far from you and says, $24 million client, “How would you describe what we do for you?” And the client says on the phone, “Not much.”
Steve Wershing:
Wow.
Leo Pusateri:
And I said, “Would you have rather found that out now on this call where you can do something about it or later?”
As my model continues, what do you value the most about our work? How would you describe the real value? Is there anything we haven’t discussed the last six months to a year relative to your personal and professional goals as it relates to your wealth mandates that I need to be more sensitive to? Could the emotions come out? What can we improve?
All the things that you both touch. In different ways, I’m also complimentary in doing that and I just believe these questions are forcing advisors to slow down. I said, “The closer you get, the deeper you dive, the more you squeeze their heart, these issues, emotions come up.” And if you extend it then with the issues around what we’re talking about with significance and regrets and abundance and gratitude perspective, being your best, living your legacy, this more holistic orientation that surrounds how much money do you have? Well do you have any more money coming in retirement? What’s your 401K plan look like? What’s your retirement plan? Your RRSP or whatever else like this. It just takes it from just the old paradigm when the three of us grew up in the industry, from investment advisor to financial advisor to wealth advisor where we’re at today and I just believe all these principles start to come together. Make them better advisors. Make them better individuals themselves as they lead their families and how they can just be better in the future. That’s where I’m at with this.
Julie Littlechild:
Where can advisors find out more about the work that you do?
Leo Pusateri:
Very easy. Couple websites, Pusateri Consulting, P-U-S-A-T-E-R-I or the Sabbatical Experience. S-A-B-B-A-T-I-C-A-L. Or they can give us a call on our beautiful Buffalo office here at 716 631-9860. Think about this Julie, Steve, the more you can get around your own emotions, think about your life differently, and if you can help clients do the same, it just logically makes sense to me that they’re going to become referable to do this. People are going to say, “I deal with a really cool advisor. I deal with someone who really has taken me down a path of self discovery and not just asking me the typical things that we all do or where’s your money? At the typical cocktail party.”
Those scenarios where we’ve left a presence in our absence or we’ve built such high reputational value and we become more and more referable are scenarios like this where we’ve got a handle on our own future that allows us to dig deeper to our own emotions. We become better advisors and obviously life goes on where people say, “Who are you dealing with and I’m working with somebody, this person’s really different. He’s extended his or her normal discussions around my wealth or my executive compensation or my retirement plan to other issues.”
A couple of my clients and one of my partners is getting ready to launch a business around family conversations and all this stuff comes into play. I just feel they’re all connected dots. The great work the two of you do, I like to feel that we compliment it and I’m starting to take it to a different level of introspection on the life side as well. I really appreciate you both asking me to be on this today.
Julie Littlechild:
Well thank you. I don’t think we could end it at a better place than that.
Steve Wershing:
Exactly.
Julie Littlechild:
Thank you so much for your time.
Steve Wershing:
Yeah, thank you Leo. Thank you so much.
Leo Pusateri:
Thank you Julie. Thank you Steve.
Steve Wershing:
Hey folks, Steve again. Thanks for joining us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes, it really helps. You can get all the links, show notes and other tidbits from these episodes at becomingreferable.com. You can also get our free report, Three Referral Myths that Limit Your Growth, and connect with our blogs and other resources. Until next time, so long.